Talk:Tremulous

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CVG To-do: edit  Gaming Collaboration of the week: Kirby Super Star Expand: New CVG Articles, Normality, Pac-Man World 2, Operation Flashpoint: Elite, Call of Juarez, Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar, Ford Street Racing, Betrayal at Krondor CVG Peer Review: List of F-Zero titles, Kya: Dark Lineage, Wii Remote, Dynasty Warriors 4, The Sims 2, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, Kirby's Dream Land, Electronic sports, Fire Emblem, Dante (Devil May Cry), The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Final Fantasy XII, Sonic the Hedgehog (16-bit), Classes in World of Warcraft Cleanup: Age of Mythology, Mario Kart: Double Dash!!, Betrayal at Krondor, List of Nintendo trademarks Merge: Deletions / Essential articles / Magazines Assess and Prioritise articles (Log)

Well I am not sure if the aliens do evolve into more powerfull creatures but certainly they do have different set of abilities. I have not seen any of the other creatures being able to kill healthy humanoid in battlesuit "instantly". That can be done with dretch - the starting alien using head touch/bite and descending in the direction down the spine into the torso. Best executed from wall under ceiling along the wall straight path down to the floor while there is the target standing next to the wall.

-- This article reads like the back of a box for a retail game, needs a rewrite.

• Agreed. I'll give it a look over when I have more time, and remove the affluent verbiage and make it more encyclopedic. Sephylight 01:20, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

This is stuff that should be posted on a gamers forum but I am posting it here. There has been a lot of deconing and teamkilling recently on Trem. I know because I was doing some of it. But, I logged onto a server today to find someone already deconing. So here are some deconing stragies and possable tools for server admins.

Deconing for Aliens: 1. Decon all the eggs, evolve and call a vote to kick another granger saying he did it. 2. Build eggs in over dead drops, or in Map bugs like transit Deconing for Humans: Deconing the Armory is more inportant then the Reactor during SD. 1. Saw the telenodes and the armory. This can be done in under 20 sec. 2. Stand on top of armory, buy and use Grenades over and over. You can get off 3 or 4 before the first one goes off. Aslo it kills teammates. 3. Decon the telenodes and kill yourself in a creative way, gravity, or running in to the alien base. If you sprint it can ge alians win in 30 seconds. 4. Luci. Tools or admins: 1. A ban of a IP address does nothing but keep someone else from starting trem later. It is to easy to get a new IP. Use a temp ban, 14 days sounds good, of the sub net 123.x.x.x to keep the deconner from returning. If you can, use the namelog command to remove any good players' IPs that where banned. 2. Autokick anyone that Tks a structure during SD. 3. Autokick any that changes there name to the name of someone already on the server. 4. Temporary name bans 4. Limit votes a player can make, limit the number of name changes. This already exist.

Contents 1 Classes 2 Total rewritting of the article 3 Notability in question? 4 CVG Assessment 5 Cleanup tag added 6 Administrators 7 Classes 8 Mods to Tremulous 9 Balance/Tremx

[edit] Classes

I don't think that trem uses a pre-determined number of kills per team to advance to the next stage. The advancement target is dynamic as it can change as more or less players join or leave the match. Perhaps the article should reflect this? --Al Fonz 09:44, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. Remember, be bold! --Film11 19:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Total rewritting of the article

I wrote a new version of the article in order to make it more suitable to Wikipedia. I m a Tremulous' player so my opinion may be biased but i do think an article about Tremulous should stay in Wikipedia. It has as much or maybe more players than Nexuiz or Warsow. However, i do admit that the previous version was absolutely awful (mostly copied from the official website). So pls check my version, correct all my English mistakes (i m not a native English speaker) and i hope we will make it a good enough article to remove the "Unencyclopedic" and "notability" templates. Ksempac 17:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notability in question?

Questioning the notability of the game is ridiculous. Their are two linked reviews (both from well-known gaming/software sites), and a popularity poll on Planet Quake that Tremulous won. Aside from that, their is no set policy on the notability of video games. The article was essentially fine the way it is, and fit in right along-side the other video game articles on Wikipedia. I'll be adding a few more things later, but I'm removing both notability and unencyclopedic tags. Sephylight 04:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. In the references, I count ONE news story, a note about the free textures, and two highly unreliable sources. The poll even states that the results can easily be tampered with and provide inaccurate results. As for Moddb, there are absolutely no inclusion criteria for getting a mod listed. All a ModDB article establishes is the the mod in question exists, but not it's notability. I'm re-adding the notability tag until you can find better sources. Reviews for preference, not fan-manipulated votes and a self-made database article. And all the external links are for either official pages, fan pages or clan pages, all of which are most definitly not valid sources for establishing notability. The Kinslayer 12:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what the policy is on the notability of computer and video games, but I agree with Sephylight. This game also features in some list articles: list of free first person shooters, list of open source games, list of freeware games, and possibly others. Guyjohnston 13:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm gonna ignore the lists for now, since that's a whole deifferent arguement (but in short, being on a list in Wikipedia is generally consiudered the least notable form of notability.) The key with notability is multiple, non-trivial, independant third-party articles/reviews. A proper article (and this is defined as a minimum of half a page usually) is not an interview with developers, an advert or a printing of a press release. Independent third-party means that the magazine/website/whatever shouldn't be connected to the game/mod in any way (as is the case with fan sites, which makes them unreliable), and most importantly, links must be provided to all articles used to support notability claims. Just saying, for example, 'It was mentioned in PC Zone a few months ago' would NOT be accepted by most people as a reasonable support to notability. I think I covered everything, but I'll be happy try and answer any other questions. The Kinslayer 13:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

There are a few bad points in your argumentation. First, there are lots of articles on Wikipedia about free video games with absolutly no reference but arent tagged (some examples are : Nexuiz, Warsow, or the little Mono_(game)). Actually, most of the articles about free video games are lacking references. Yet, i dont think they should be tagged either. The lack of reference is because game-related websites/newspapers focus on commercial games rather than freelly available games to help their readers determine whether they should buy the game or not (if a game is free, a player can download and try it by himself). Second, Tremulous has more than 300 000 downloads on Sourceforge ( http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=14890 ). Even if you consider some people downloaded it multiple times, that's still a pretty big number of downloads. That's why i think the tag should be removed. Ksempac 15:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I have say that 'but X, Y and Z have are similar to this and no-one's saying anything about them' arguement holds little water simply because usually all that's happened is no-one has noticed those articles yet. Every single time someone brought up those articles as examples on a talk page or AfD, the article ends up being tagged, or worse, deleted. I whole-heartedly agree that freeware games are hard to establish notability for, and I believe efforts are being undertaken by the CVG project to establish some guidelines for Freeware notability. The tag is only there to show that the article is lacking in a certain area, it's not a nomination for deletion. I'm not saying I think the article should be deleted, I'm just trying to highlight an area the article seems to quite badly lacking at the moment. It's not just about good reviews and media coverage though. If the game has been officially recorded as the first to do something important in gaming, or is unique in some other way, then that tends to be an acceptable alternative. I'd recommend going to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer and video games and requesting some people come and give their opinions on the article. Maybe someone can suggest or find something that's currently being overlooked. The Kinslayer 15:33, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

And looking at those three examples, two technically qualify as speedy deletes due to no assertion of notability at all. Only the third one is notable, due to it being picked up by a branch of a well-known long established organisation. So two of your three examples would probably end up being deleted after an AfD. Please don't take that as a threat though, I'm just trying to explain the reasoning behind asking for better sources for the article. The Kinslayer 15:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm willing to concede on the poll issue; however, calling the other reference link (aside from the NewsForge article) a "self-made database article" is simply incorrect. It's quite clearly a link to the review written by a ModDB staff member. Which can also be accessed, at the moment, by going to ModDB's "Features" page. http://features.moddb.com/ That being said, I feel that it currently has two reliable sources for verifying its notability. As a regular peruser of deletion discussions on Wikipedia, I'm of the opinion that the article would withstand an AfD entry.72.161.242.113 21:04, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CVG Assessment

I'm here from the request on the cvg assessment page. This article has been rated as a start class article. To improve it to B class, a few things need to be done-

1. - The lead needs to be rewritten. I should be able to tell what this article is about from reading the lead without knowing anything about Tremulous, ioquake3, or even Quake beforehand. As I know only a little about Quake, and couldn't tell what this was other than some free game built off of a quake engine(?)
2. - The history (now development) section needs to be revised from a neutral pov. NPOV statements are- "it wasn't initially hugely popular" and "likely due to the fact it was now completely free of charge". The section also needs to be written as flowing prose, rather than sentence-long paragraph things.
3. - This is the hard one- there needs to be a Reception section. Most of the modification section can be deleted and the rest merged into this section. What this means, though, is that you need to find more references from good sources. Which, as said above, is really hard for something like this. I agree that you have enough now to withstand an AfD on a good day, but you need a bit more to make B or higher class.
4. - The good news- I really like the gameplay section. Congratulations on not making it a puffball of a game guide. Overall, I think this article is a really solid, if a bit on the short side, Start class article, and I am marking it as such. --PresN 03:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup tag added

Due to various mechanical errors, as well as rhythm issues, I've issued a cleanup tag. Also the "slang" section needs to be reviewed, as a lot of it is either superfluous, unsubstantiated, or Internet common use (wtf).

Kazmarov 08:41, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I put the most commonly used Tremulous abbreviation, and I agree it should be reviewed.

ReciProcate 20:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Well i made some changes, by removing all non-trem specific stuff (like wtf or ffs) and keeping only terms used only by Tremulous players on the forums. But you put it again....Thats what you call "Should be reviewed" ? Someone makes some changes and you put your own version again ? Moreover, you mustn t sign on the article. Sigs are only for discussions.

Actually this whole section hasnt much encyclopedic value, and i m seriously considering a deletion of the whole section but i wanted the opinion of others wikipedians before doing it. That's why i made a temporary, more encyclopedic, version of this section. Ksempac 20:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I didn't review it much I just wanted it to be a base. Whatever you want to do. The signature was an accident. Sorry about that. Upon further review, I agree it should be taken off, or put an easier to use version. ReciProcate 21:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Removed cleanup tag : corrections were done to improve the article, so the tag was useless but no one removed it until now.Ksempac 20:04, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Administrators

I added an administrator section to the article, could a Tremulous player please look over this and fix up any mistakes I made. Thank you. Also I am thinking about adding a small section on kicks and bans. Does anyone object to this, also maybe we would like to add a section on buildings such as overmind, machine gun turrets, armory, etc. I may be to busy to this soon, so could someone else do this if they could? Thank you again --Robin63 18:48, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm of the opinion that an Administration section would do little good, and is -- especially in it's current form -- unencyclopedic. Especially considering that there are currently three different forms of administration used: r1, tjw's, and the trem base install system. As such, I'm going to remove it for now. Someone can bring it back and work it up later if they feel it has merit. Sephylight 10:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Classes

I started a section on classes, but it is incomplete, could some please help improve this? Thank you --Robin63 20:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that subsections of the Gameplay section could briefly outline classes, weapons, and buildings, and would be useful as a counter-part to the very summarized main Gameplay section. However, in it's current form, it's just clutter. I'll remove it for now. Sephylight 10:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mods to Tremulous

Mods are currently outlined in a few brief sentences under Reception. I'm very strongly of the opinion that the mods in progress right now aren't notable enough for their own section yet. Also, it's very POV at the moment. I'm removing it. Sephylight 10:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Good job Sephylight, I think you re right. Actually, I m getting really tired of all the Tremulous' players who have no idea about what should or shouldn t be in Wikipedia and add some crap to this article. Everytime a wikipedian cleans this article, 3 or 4 guys come, add useless sentences and then the article ends up with the clean-up tag. We re stuck at the same point we were one month ago when the CVG project assessed the article Ksempac 07:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

meh —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.122.136.250 (talk) 11:58, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Balance/Tremx

Hey, I searched the English article for information on the Blaance or TremX and I havent found anything. I'd love to add something but I cant because: 1. I dont know much about either, 2. I haven't gotten those to work on my computer. ReciProcate 18:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Many people already tried to add some reference to theses mods but they were removed because : 1- Lack of notability 2- Wikipedia is not a game manual or a list of mods. Ksempac 12:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC)