Talk:Ursula K. Le Guin
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[edit] Technique
I've removed the reference to Tolkien and added a comment about the concern with the everyday. I'm sure it can be improved and particularly should be backed up with quotes and references. But I think there is no need for a comparison with Tolkien. See my comments below.RK
Following my comment below I had a look at the page history and I can see why this is confusing. In the earlier version it stated that Le Guin was "more" concerened with the human condition than Tolkien, while in the later version this has been changed to say that her concern is "like" Tolkien's. Not that concern with the human condition is a matter of technique but the earlier version makes sense (even if it is a controversial point to make). I think it would be a good idea to remove reference to Tolkien and confine the article to discussing what Le Guin does. It would be interesting to have links or references to material that compares her with other writers. RK
I find the whole "Technique" section confusing. There's not much discussion of technique and I don't know what is meant in by "unearthly" here. The reference to Tolkien gratuitous. If I wanted to contrast Le Guin and Tolkien I'd say something about the different way they create realistic worlds. LE Guin concerns her characters with pactical life - sailing, animal care, and even doing the washing up to create a believable world, whereas Tolkien created a hugely detailed back story which underscores everything that his characters encounter. I suspect that the way Le Guin writes is influenced by her father being an ethnographer her descriptions remind me of how the best ethnographers describe the practical aspects of peoples lives. RK
I'm confused by the comment that Tolkien is not concerned with "the human condition."
I would disagree by the asserting that the entire question of the Ring's nature is a question of addiction, suffering, sacrifice... in short, a very important look at what it means to be human. Any further thoughts on why this author thought Tolkien was not concerned with the human condition?
[edit] Bits and pieces
In the adaptations section: "One of LeGuin's best-known novels, The Left Hand of Darkness, is being developed by Zoetrope production as a feature film to be released in 2008."
Is there a reference for this, such as a press release?
I would count Always Coming Home and Eye of the Heron as Ekumen books, but perhaps you folks disagree.
- I see no evidence that Eye of the Heron is part of the Ekumen history; Always Coming Home is not - for one thing, it shows no trace of the ansible. Septentrionalis 17:28, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for adding the pronunciation blurb! I always wondered too. I guess she does as the Romans do (depending on which Romans she's hanging out with)!divadiane 16:20, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
- A useful addition I was glad I could contribute. Even so, a lifetime of saying "Le Goo-in" (after reading "Wizard of Earthsea" at the age of 11 or so) makes for a hard habit to break. –Hajor
Does anyone know precisely how her name is pronounced? Is it Le Geen, Le Gwin, Le Goo-in, or something else? If anyone knows for sure I'd really like to see it in the article.
I added an article on The Wind's Twelve Quarters and another on Four Ways to Forgiveness.
I am going to add a few of her books, and also a section, like the Earthsea section, about the Hainish Cycle. I don't know exactly which books fit into it, so please help me with the list.
Le Guin definitely spells her name with a space. This is the way it appears on all her books, on her letterhead stationery, etc. // Always Coming Home HAS a story. It also has inset material on the civilization. The same thing is true of The Left Hand of Darkness.
Is Always Coming Home a novel???? I'm not sure what it is, but a novel is supposed to have a story, doesn't it?
I kind of got the anarchist (or at least socialist) stuff, but taoist? Which works and what themes in them? I'm curious!
At a guess, the Earthsea novels seem taoist...being one with nature, preserving the balance etc.
- The Telling was inspired by the eradication of most of Chinese Taoist culture. Also, Le Guin has published a version of the Tao te ching. Vicki Rosenzweig
"The Left hand of Darkness" has Taoist themes including ideas of wholeness and dualism. At one point Genly Ai says that the people of Gethen emphasize wholeness is the same way people on Earth emphasize opposites. The book also explores tension and interaction between opposites such as male/female, light/dark, Handdara/Yomeshta. In "City of Illusions" Falk brings a Taoist book with him on his journey.
In Planet of Exile and City of Illusions, the holy scriptures that the Earth colonists revere are Taoist.
- The main character in The Lathe of Heaven is described as being right in the middle on the scales defined by a number of opposites. This clearly suggests a yin-yang perspective on things. By the way, yin-yang are not specificly taoistic concepts; they also show up in confucianism. Lao tzu tends to be yinistic, Confusius yangistic.--Niels Ø 13:53, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)
Note: This author's name is properly spelled with a space, thus: Ursula K. Le Guin.
If I remember correctly from a letter from her, she spelled without the space. With the space seems more common on books, though. Oh well. --Pinkunicorn
-- due to uncertainty about the correct spelling of her last name, a Wikipedia page on her also exists at Ursula K. Le Guin
I suggest that this confusion be resolved and the pages merged, with the "wrong" page left as a pointer to the correct one.
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- The United States Library of Congress catalog shows her name as Le Guin with the space, therefore making that the main page with "LeGuin" redirecting to it. (28 September 2001) ***
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I confess that I haven't read it fully yet, but "The Other Wind" is part of the Earthsea series, isn't it? It appears to include characters from Tehanu, along with at least one appearance of Ged. Does this make it the next book in the Earthsea "pentology"?
The Other Wind is definitely an Earthsea novel. It follows on from "Tehanu."
Also, "Le Guin", with a space, according to her Web page: http://www.ursulakleguin.com/
Thanks. It would be an interesting battle royale if the Library of Congress and author disagreed on the correct spelling of the name. :-)
"She has written that her goal was to write about a society that had never had a war."
-- I recall this as being something she speculated would be an secondary effect of genderlessness rather than the initial motive for the book. Anybody have a source one way or the other?
- Not sure if this has been answered, but since I just recently ran across the quote that I believe this refers to, I figured I'd document it: From Dancing at the Edge of the World, the essay "Is Gender Necessary? Redux," Le Guin writes, "At the very inception of the whole book, I was interested in writing a novel about people in a society that had never had a war. That came first. The androgyny came second. (Cause and effect? Effect and cause?)" (pg 11 of the 1990 edition)--CAnderson 17:01, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)
From my memory of the short story "Winter's King" which was UKlG's first story about the world of Gethen, the Gethenians did have wars; or at least, civil war. I'll have to dig out and re-read the originals... -- The Anome
-- Winter's King is (in the stories' timeline though perhaps not in order of writing) a sequel to Left Hand of Darkness (The protagonist is Argaven XVII, grandchild of that Argaven XV with whom Genly Ai deals in LHoD).
One of the motifs of LHoD -- and problems Ai encounters -- is that though they have a long tradition of small "forays" or "raids" between Domains (to settle points of honor or steal goods) the Gethenians (specifically the countries of Karhide and Orgoreyn) are *just beginning* to develop the activity of "war" after some thousands of years of civilization. (Le Guin has a lovely quote in Chapter 5 on the Gethenians' lack of "the capacity to mobilize").
By the time of Winter's King, the Gethenians have "advanced" ("as it is said" -- from Tolkien) a little further along this road.
I am curious about the quote saying that Le Guin's works show the need for a "true king" to save the world. Where does this come from? I don't see this in her books. In LHoD there is no one character who can change the world by themselves. Genly Ai says that the Ekumen works by coordination and trade of ideas, rather than having a centralized government. Many of her works also seem to focus on anarchism, and the leaders of these movements, such as Odo in "The Day before the Revolution," don't seem to resemble Aragorn like characters.
- In the Ekumen Universe works, I do not recall a "true king" either, however in Earthsea trilogy and the additional works in that universe there is a theme of a very important single person. In "The Farthest Shore", the whole story (in one level at least) revolves around bringing the true king back. at0 21:24, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
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- (William M. Connolley 18:16, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)) Earthsea was what I was thinking of when I wrote it. I'm fairly sure the idea occurs elsehwhere though, but can't bring it to mind.
- In re: "However, they share with Tolkien – and, by definition, with most epic high fantasy – the traditional notion that only the "True King" can solve the world's most important problems." I have difficulties with this. Many of Le Guin's works are really quite the opposite of this. I think this ought to be expunged.
- (William M. Connolley 18:16, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)) Earthsea was what I was thinking of when I wrote it. I'm fairly sure the idea occurs elsehwhere though, but can't bring it to mind.
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- For what it's worth, the Earthsea trilogy - which is part of LeGuin's very early ouevre - documents the events leading up to the return of the True King, Lebannen, to sit on the throne of Morred in Havnor under the Ring of Erreth-Akbe. Many years later, she wrote the rest of the Earthsea cycle - Tehanu, then The Other Wind - as semi-explicit refutations of this 'savior tale'. Tehanu explores themes such as feminism, ambiguity, and what regular people do when there are a bunch of self-important men striding around. LeGuin enjoys writing about archetypes, but she also seems to enjoy turning them on their head. -Ikkyu2 04:08, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Pronounciation
I think the "luh gwinn" pronounciation clarification is useful, but is the mock-french follow-up really that informative?
Muaddib 01:46, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- It was me who put that quotation in there originally. It's light-hearted, sure, but the fact that it's a direct quote from UKL's
mouthkeyboard gives it a validity and a relevance it wouldn't have otherwise. I'd be sad to see it go. –Hajor 02:14, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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- Sounds reasonable to me then. Muaddib 06:40, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Great. Thanks. –Hajor 16:15, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Reorganization
Where should we place info on the TV/film adaptations in this article? I'm not sure the end of the "Biography" section is the best place. SWalkerTTU 15:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
- I think that when the article was originally written, there weren't many adaptations. Now that they're taking off, why not make a new section? It could be called TV/Film adaptations or something similar. -Ikkyu2 23:01, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
- Done Septentrionalis 17:29, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to remove this sentence: "Despite her many awards and her considerable popularity, Le Guin is also notable as one of the few major science fiction writers of her generation whose major SF and Fantasy works have not as yet been widely adapted for film or television." Certainly four adaptations (two of the Lathe, two of Earthsea') give the lie to this statement? ZviGilbert 17:17, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] short stories
Where can i find a list of all the themes explored in her short stories so I can pick one that I want to read that I would particularly like?--Sonjaaa 05:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Le Guin and anarchism
There is some controversy among editors of the Anarchism page about whether UKL is an anarchist. In attempting to discover an answer I have found the following three sources:
- [Michael Krasny] set out to ask a broad range of thinkers what they had read that had provided moral insight or served as a catalyst or paradigm of virtue, ethical behavior, or simply living the kind of life that makes a difference. What texts do they look to when they want moral guideposts or standards for ethical action?
- Ursula K. Le Guin, Novelist
- I read Lao-tzu and the Tao Te Ching at 14. My father had it around the house in the old edition with the Chinese text. I sneaked a peek and was and remain fascinated. Taoism is still an underlayer in my work. It begins talking about what we can't talk about--an old mysticism that intertwines with Buddhism and is practical and not theistic. Before and beyond God. There's a humorous and easygoing aspect to it that I like temperamentally and that fits in with anarchism. Pacifist anarchism and Lao-tzu have a lot of connection with each other, especially in the 20th century.[1]
- Q: How did you become a Taoist, if you would consider yourself one?
- UKL: By reading Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu, mostly. I don't have my library here so I don't dare try to give you any names of scholars and popularisers who helped me understand Taoism - I would forget most of them. I don't really know how one "is" a Taoist. I do know that Taoist ideas inform a great deal of my writing.[2]
- ELM: You have talked about dry times in writing, and how sometimes one must wait for the writing tank to fill. How do you deal with such fluctuations in your writing life? Have you noticed consistent cycles? What helps you get through the dry times and refill your writer’s tank?
- UKL: You sit and wait and wait and wait and wait. And fret. And consult the I Ching, which tells you to wait. So you wait and wait . . .
- Traveling is bad for fiction but good for poetry. That's the only cycle I have noticed.
- Work always leads to work, so it's good in a dry time to have some interest to pursue, something I want to learn about (because I'm a head-worker). Like the Revolution of 1830, say. I read about it for years. Just because I liked it. I was very interested for years in sleep and dream research. In other years I read a lot of utopias, and about utopias, and about Gandhi, and about Anarchism. All those learnings, which I pursued purely because I was interested in the subject, turned into novels in the end.[3]
These statements hardly clear up the ambiguity, other than to illustrate that she claims pacifism as much as anarchism, and Taoism more often. She may "be" a Taoist, and maybe an anarchist and a pacifist as well -- note her disavowal and use of quotes around "is" -- or she may just be "interested in subjects" that "turn into novels." 67.168.216.176 20:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
- See her introduction to The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas. And the "is" is a quite sensible caveat about Taoism. Septentrionalis 01:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
