Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catullus
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I found a community of Wikipedians on Livejournal and asked them about this (http://community.livejournal.com/wikipedians). While the majority of them don't think that translations come under the heading of original research, they still have qualms about including a lot of translation on Wiki. I suggest that we come to some sort of compromise and only include translations for the really, really notable and famous poems that have a lot more information on them, with the emphasis on the non-translation stuff. We could (with the understanding that they will be edited accordingly, because a lot of the existing translations are inaccurate). I think a good list of poems is 1, 5, 7, 8, 11, 51, 85, and 101. I also think we might create articles for the others mentioned in Catullus as well. We could then move the other poems to wikisource, because for some reason users' translations are more acceptable there. Sophy's Duckling 05:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I also think that it would be a good idea to write an article independent of the Catullus article on his poetry (i.e., expand the article Poetry of Catullus and say on the poetry section of Catullus, "For main article, see: Poetry of Catullus"). Last night, I created Poetry of Catullus and redirected the overwhelming majority of his poems (most of which didn't even have articles) to there. That way, we could talk about some of these less notable poems specifically without having to create articles on them and without having to include them in the Catullus article, where I think they're slightly out of place.
Here is a list of articles that are not redirects (yet). I think those under the expand section are certainly notable enough to have their own articles, that those under transfer to wikisource & turn into redirects are not notable enough to have their own articles, and obviously I don't know what to do yet with those under "Undecided." Suggestions &c. are welcomed. Sophy's Duckling 15:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Contents |
[edit] Undecided
Catullus 9 Catullus 12 Catullus 13 Catullus 29 Catullus 49 Catullus 96 Catullus 16
[edit] Expand
Catullus 1 Catullus 5 Catullus 7 Catullus 8 Catullus 11 Catullus 51 Catullus 64 Catullus 85 Catullus 101
[edit] Transfer to Wikisource & turn into redirect
Catullus 2 Catullus 2b Catullus 3 Catullus 4 Catullus 6 Catullus 109 Catullus 116 Catullus 10 Catullus 14
[edit] Comments
- Comment from a neutral third party: Samael775 originally noted problems with posting the original poetry based on notability standards. I would like to point out that "notability" is not even a Wikipedia guideline, let alone official policy. I share the opinion found on Trollderella's userpage on this issue. Samael also stated, "However, you are not allowed to post original sources under WP:NPS." However, WP:NPS is only a guideline, not official policy. The specifics of this issue, in particular the issue of needing the original poem for scansion, seem to be grounds for an exception to WP:NPS. I would support articles on individual Catullus poems, including English translations, provided all analysis and commentary is sourced (and, if not from a PD source, paraphrased to avoid copyright issues), in order to comply with WP:V and WP:OR. --Ginkgo100 talk · contribs · e@ 15:37, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- I harped on notability a lot because there is not a lot of information on most of the poems, and the articles would basically be perpetual stubs. in any event, the dispute seems to have wound down; Samael775 thinks that the table we have in Catullus 1 does not violate wiki policy so long as there are references, and I think most of the poems currently here should be transferred to Wikisource. Sophy's Duckling 16:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] An Idea
In the interest of settling this dispute, I propose the following:
Move translations, text, and scansion of all Catullus poems to Wikisource. Expand Poetry of Catullus, including a section about his metrics with examples of scansion in the format of the table on Catullus 1. If deemed it will significantly improve the quality of the aricles, include translations in articles about specific poems, but provide notes for any words which can be translated in more than one way, and reference translation of idioms. However, focus on analysis and the history and impact of Catullus's works, not simply providing translation. Remove or redirect articles about nonnotable works.
The only potential pitfall here is wikisource policy, which excludes text in other languages from the english wikipedia. However, I think something like the table on Catullus 1 will be acceptable, I will post a message on the wikisource scriptorium about this. --Samael775 15:44, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Project Directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:
- User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
- User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
- User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
- User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
- User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
- User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
- User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
- User:Badbilltucker/Science directory
and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 22:32, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now moved the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 14:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Annotated texts
Several of these poem articles are little more than annotated texts, giving the source text, an original translation thereof, and then line by line annotations. Wikipedia articles are not collections of source material, nor are they annotated texts. The proper place for annotated works of literature is Wikibooks, which will quite happily take all of the poems, not just selected ones, as long as they are actually properly annotated for study use and not just raw copies of the source text. See WP:FICT#Making good use of Wikibooks and Wikisource for how to use Wikipedia, Wikibooks, and Wikisource in concert for situations like this. I've started The Poetry of Gaius Valerius Catullus for you. Uncle G 18:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
