Talk:Xhosa language
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[edit] "The Click Song" and Xhosa r/rh
On "The Click Song," someone with Makeba's album should double-check the lyrics. I don't hear "bathi" in there at all.
Also, my Xhosa textbook spells igqirha with an rh, but the lyrics here have *igqira. I notice in the table of consonants above, there is an rh and a gr, but no single r. I think the correct spelling must be rh (which is in IPA /x/), not a simple r. Compare with a recording.
--Dupes 20:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] are you sure?
Are you sure there's ever an exclamation point there? I think you're confusing Xhosa with the Khoisan languages.
You are absolutely right; Ethnologue mentions many names for Xhosa, none with an exclamation mark. arj 19:55, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
[edit] "Gender system"
To call this a gender system, to me, is really strange as there is absolutely no correlation with gender. There is also something like 15 classes, none of them with any relation to gender. Many of the classes pair to form singular-plural pairs. My knowledge is about Zulu, but I'm quite sure its the same for Xhosa.
The original meaning of "gender" is "kind, type", and not "sex". I agree it can be confusing, and in languages with more than two or three genders, these are often termed "noun classes" - which the article uses as the primary term. "Genders" in scare quotes should stay, in my opinion, since many non-linguists are not aware of the proper term, nor of the existence of languages with many noun classes. arj 18:43, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I think it's important to show readers that Xhosa noun classes have the same function as French/Spanish/German genders. Also note that one of the Scandinavian languages (I think Danish) has a neuter and a common gender, but neither masculing nor feminine. --Taejo 07:45, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
- Gender is a standard linguistic term for this. The meaning of 'sex' is recent, and derived from the linguistic term. Danish, Dutch, Swedish and at least one of the |Norwegian languages do not distinguish masculine from feminine nouns. ColinFine 12:49, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Incosistency
In regard to the sentence "The members of the ethnic group that speaks Xhosa refer to themselves as the amaXhosa and their language is known as isiXhosa." in the second paragraph - and elsewhere. Is the language called Xhosa or isiXhosa? --Eleassar777 16:53, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- They call it isiXhosa, whereas most English speakers call it Xhosa. - Mustafaa 17:40, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- ...and the isi is the noun class prefix of the class that includes names of languages; that's why the native name is isiXhosa, whereas Xhosa, without noun class prefix, is generally used in English. (Check out both Kiswahili and Swahili for another example). — mark ✎ 23:40, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The q, c and x letters were chosen to convey the hint that non-native speakers can replace the click with the 'k' sound with little loss in meaning.
This sounds like rubbish: the q, c and x were (I've always assumed) chosen because they have no unique sound in English - i.e. are unnecessary - because they can be replaced with kw, k or s, and ks respectively. Also, to replace them with 'k' not only often loses meaning (and you're unlikely to be understood if you consistently replace all your clicks with 'k') but is offensive ("I can't be bothered to learn the proper name of your language, so I'll call it Koza") --Taejo 07:45, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Samples?
The IPA isn't very good at conveying the sound of the language---or even, really, how to pronounce Xhosa. Is anyone (or does anyone know) a native speaker and have access to a mic? There doesn't seem to be a place for speech sample requests for esoteric languages. grendel|khan 13:30, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
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It is requested that an image be included in this article to improve its quality, if possible. This image request is for Not an image, but we could use an audio sample of a native speaker pronouncing the word 'Xhosa'. |
[edit] learning xhosa
xhosa is one of the african languages i'm attempting to learn. i've been listening to an xhosa audio course for... i think it's been several years now.
Gringo300 04:15, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Xhosa pronounciation
As a native speaker of Xhosa (Gcaleka, Bomvana, Rharhabe and Mpondo dialects), I certainly agree that to replace Xhosa clicks with 'k' would simply make no meaning in the language or worst it could create great confusion as to the intended message. One simply has to learn to pronounce the 'q', 'x' and 'c' and the combination of these consonants or at least try to be closer to the real sound. For those looking for help in pronounciation, I suggest to contact several South African universities with Xhosa departments e.g Fort Hare and Rhodes in the Eastern Cape Province or Cape Town and Western Cape in the Western Cape province.
Lastly, the language the amaXhosa speak is referred to as isiXhosa. Only English speakers refer to it as 'Xhosa'. The name of a language is not conjugated in English but of course it also is in a few cases. So to say that "Bathetha isiXhosa" can be directly translated as "They speak the Xhosa language" or "Uthetha isiNgesi" as "She or he speaks the English language" Zintatu, 03 november 2005213.209.160.58 10:05, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Long vowels
- Long vowels are phonemic, but are usually not written, except for â.
I've never seen a diacritic in written Xhosa, except in a dictionary (where they indicate tone). Doubling a letter indicates length, but is only ever used in the noun prefixes oo- (class 2a) and ii- (class 10). So I've changed it. --Taejo | Talk 12:15, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] English pronunciation of the name
How is the name "Xhosa" usually pronounced by English speakers? It would be useful to have this detail in the introductory paragraph. Cheers. Ben Arnold 23:27, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
- Well that depends. In South Africa, English-speakers usually say it (or attempt to!) how native speakers say it, with the click (although without the isi- as has been mentioned). Many older South Africans pronounce it 'koza', but most young English-speakers feel that that is lazy and disrespectful. Joziboy 25 Feb 2006, 11:05 UTC
[edit] Star Trek reference
I've removed the following text: "In the fictional Star Trek universe, a freighter is named after the language."
It's a link to an off-site wiki, and not being familiar with the show, it just feels crufty to mention it anywhere in this article, especially the lead paragraph! Graham talk 10:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
