Talk:XML

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Archives Talk page up to end 2006

Contents 1 Populating an xml database 2 Can anyone answer this re xml? 3 Empty elements in XHTML 4 Extended to? 5 WML 6 Arcane ideas such as nillability 7 External Links 8 Free vs Free software 9 Game Mods 10 Bullet List in Criticism Section has too much debate in it

[edit] Populating an xml database

I have seen several basic XML tutorials and they talk about creating an XML database by typing lines such as:

 <name>John</name>
 <age>34</age>

etc. etc That's understood. But,

what if I have a comma or tab separated text file of 1000's of names? Surely I do not have to write:

<name></name>

1000's of times?

So how do I import the data from a text file?

???? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pokerscouse (talk • contribs) 16:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC).

You write some code that loops through the lines of data in your CSV file, and outputs the correct XML for each item. There would be a neat way to do this in just about any current programming or scripting language. Maybe, if you're less technical, you could import it into a spreadsheet, then export the spreadsheet as something like HTML, but you'd have little real control over the XML element names etc. --Nigelj 20:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can anyone answer this re xml?

I am studying XML. I find that some of the commands in the tutorial I am using, do not produce brower display results that the author says they should, particularly when the @ symbol is used. I only have IE 5.5 and cannot upgrade to 6.0 because that is not possible without an internet connection, which I do not have in my dingy flat. Is I.E. 5.5 the cause? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pokerscouse (talk • contribs) 15:06, 6 January 2007 (UTC).

This talk page is here to discuss improvements to the article on XML. It is not a place to get help or assistance on usage of XML, and I suggest you look for one of the many forums, having XML/Web technologies as topics, available on the net in order to seek answers to your questions. Jerazol 15:17, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Empty elements in XHTML

I removed the following line from section XML#Empty elements:

Note that they may, however, be treated differently if they were examples from XHTML that was intended for processing by various current and historical web browsers.

The above sentence flasely suggests XHTML treats <foo></foo> differently than <foo/>. It's true that historical browsers will choke on the abbreviated form, but so what? Old browsers choke on CDATA sections as well. —Ryan 10:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, this is true for "modern" browsers like Firefox and IE 6 as well. For instance, the <script> or <textarea> element, to mention some, cannot be written as empty elements. This is though, irellevant, imo. Since this is an article on XML I don't find it appropriate to mention special case applications deviating from the XML-standard. Jerazol 10:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Extended to?

Hi, I'd like to draw attention to the list of "Extended to" in the infobox, which currently lists lists "XHTML, RSS, Atom, ...". XHTML is an application of XML rather than an extension of XML, and I think these values would be better against the "container for =" parameter. This can be seen by the requirement that all XML document formats start with an XML preamble, similar to TIFF having headers which allow sub-formats within them.

I doubt there are any clear cases of extensions of XML, but if I had to nominate one, it would be RDF.

Likewise, I think the XHTML page should be changed from "Extended from: XML, HTML" to "Contained by: XML; Extended from: HTML". John Vandenberg 07:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WML

I apologize if you do not want this here, but I invite all that have XML knowledge to participate in the WML group.-- Nirelan

[edit] Arcane ideas such as nillability

Database-related data transfer has been supported with arcane ideas such as nillability. I can't find any supporting information as to why nillability (ie. nullability?) is arcane (or why people think it is). Christiancatchpole 00:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

How are these EXTERNAL links, may I ask?

• Expat free software stream-oriented XML 1.0 parser library, written in C.
• Libxml2 free software XML C parser and toolkit.

Nousernamesleft 19:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Free vs Free software

Imo, it doesn't really make any sense to write "free software" in this context: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=XML&diff=116854292&oldid=116845869

The reason why I reverted it the first time round, was that I read the diff wrong, thinking that he had added "software", not removed it. If you want to use "free software" instead of just "free", the sentances should probably be rewritten. Jerazol 20:10, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Game Mods

In some games, XML files are used as mods, there should be something on that. 72.130.236.182 19:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bullet List in Criticism Section has too much debate in it

I was looking for the pros and cons of xml and in the criticisms section, almost every bullet item had with the criticism a rebuttal (withing the bulleted section). A couple even looked to have a rebuttal to the rebuttal. A bulleted list by its nature is intended to transmit clear and concise/short points. Adding rebuttals into the bulleted text and turning each point into a debate runs counter to that and makes the section less clear. I suggest it would be better to clean up the section and give each criticism its own point. Should someone want to rebut them they could do it in a short summary below the bullet list. After all, the section is titled 'criticisms', not 'debates'. You may disagree with them, but a point wouldn't still be there if enough people disagreed with it (i.e. there must be more than a few people who have the same criticism). Let the point be made clearly and debate it elsewhere. Theshowmecanuck 23:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Yup. The problem is not likely to go away, however, since there is doubtless a substantial number of contributors to this article who do not believe "XML cricitisms" of any sort are valid to begin with. Notice how pristine and concise the "Strengths" section is compared to the "Criticisms" section? You are free to clean up the section yourself, but just be ready to defend your actions. (See also Holy_War). dr.ef.tymac 23:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I've made some substantial editing to this section, and I'm sure several will disagree with my edits. I think having a discussion on weather a criticism is valid or not in the article is nonsense, so let's try to agree on which criticisms can be seen as valid and get reasonable sources for these criticisms. Jerazol 08:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Although your "scortched earth" approach to editing may be a matter of some concern, I agree in principle with your efforts. I also agree with your point on "validity" ... a comment regarding cites is (I think) appropriate here. dr.ef.tymac 20:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Follow-up: I've added cites and given some attention to the "criticisms" section. That's all I have energy for (for now) but there is still some removed "discussion board" content that may be worth re-adding (at least as qualifying footnotes). Also there are probably some typos to be cleaned up. dr.ef.tymac 21:32, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The section: "criticisms" really should be changed to "weaknesses", and remove some of the citations. There are no citations for the Strengths, and some of them are questionable (e.g. XML is usually not human-readable in practice). Come on, the weaknesses of XML are pretty obvious, just as some of the strengths are. --The_Riddler 07:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

1) change "criticisms" to "weaknesses": Disagree. If you read the cited materials, you will notice not every criticism is characterized as a "flaw" with XML itself. Some simply say XML is not the right tool for every job. Do you say it is a "weakness" that a hammer is not a drill?

2) remove citations: Disagree. The opposite is actually appropriate, every item not yet cited in that section should be cited. We've already seen it devolve into a debate forum, requiring cites is a reasonable measure to combat that tendency. Grab some reliable sources and start helping out by adding cites.

3) general problems with wording: Agree. I do think you indirectly identified a different problem, the term "strengths" is not really appopriate either, no more than "weaknesses" I will address this. dr.ef.tymac 14:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

4) change "criticisms" to "weaknesses": Disagree. It seems to be a fairly standard section heading for quite a large number of articles in the Wikipedia. Especially those relating to programming and programming languages. It doesn't make sense to rename it for this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Theshowmecanuck (talk • contribs) 20:30, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

Added infos to alleviate two of the criticisms : higher storage transmission and processing costs (cf. Binary XML); and no intrisics data types (cf. XML schema). Hervegirod 11:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Kept the infos, but moved them to footnotes. People who are interested in the nuances can look there, and the bulleted lists still remain uncluttered, which was the original rationale for the recent major change to begin with. dr.ef.tymac 16:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, I agree with that ! Hervegirod 20:17, 1 April 2007 (UTC)