Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 06:03, 17 February 2007.

[edit] John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough

Self-nom for the above article. Thank you to those who participate. Raymond Palmer 18:03, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support; excellent article, all the issues raised in the peer review have been resolved. Kirill Lokshin 18:10, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
• Support -- a lovely article! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 14:44, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Gracious me - a favourite of mine since I read Winston Churchill's account many years ago. I see that there was only one comment on the MilHist PR, from Kirill Lokshin. Given his importance, it is unfortunately that there was not a general PR to get other historians, etc, involved. Anyway, this is a very good article, but I have a few comments.

Some general points first:

• I thought house style was to use straight quotes (' ' and " ") rather than curly ones (‘ ’ and “ ”)

I don't know.

• It seems to be rather under-wikilinked for my taste. For example, HMS Royal Prince (no article?), "the siege Maastricht" (sic), Battle of Sinzheim, Battle of Entzheim, Battle of Sasbach, Prince George of Denmark, Life Guards, Earl of Salisbury, Stevensweert (Why link Venlo, Roermond, and Liege but not Stevensweert? To avoid redlinks? Someone may fall over themselves to write about it, given a bit of prompting.)

To avoid Red links? Yes ; )

• It would be useful if someone gave this an end-to-end copyedit, to pick up the occasional infelicty in spelling, etc. I will try when I have time.

Some more specific points:

• "Unlike his royalist mother-in-law, Winston had had the misfortune of fighting on the losing side of the war for which he, like so many other cavaliers, was forced to pay recompense" - his mother was a royalist, so unlike her he was a parliamentarian (and so on the winning side?) - or perhaps his mother supported Parliament?
• "The old cavaliers had received recompense for losses incurred fighting parliament during the civil war, but Charles’ own penury meant they received scant reward" - who did they receive recompense from, if Charles could not afford it?
• Do we know what he was doing in the Great Plague of London or Great Fire of London, in the two years before he was commissioned in the guards?

In my effort to keep the article down in size, I did some clumsy editing! The above should be clearer now.

• Tangier in 1668 had only just become a British holding, part of the dowry of Catherine of Braganza. Why was a junior guardsman like Churchill sent there? Or has he already changed regiment? (was the system of purchasing rank already in existence?)

Not sure I understand your point Aloan.

• Presuambly he was too insignificant to be mentioned in Pepys' diary?

Absolutely. He was just a teenager when Pepy's wrote his diary

• Fn.8 - the second chapter of Urban's recent Generals repeats the Villiers story and the bread quote (probably from the same source). (And the previous chapter, George Monck, 1st Duke of Albemarle deserves to be a featured article too).
• He was a guardsman - what was he doing in the Lord High Admiral's Regiment (later the Buffs)?

As stated in the article he was promoted to Captian to that Regiment from the Guards. Later 24th of foot. Not sure if that's the Buffs.

• Given the otherwise extensive level of citaion, can you indicate where Miller and Churchill's Marlborough: His Life and Times are used?

For some unfathomable reason, another user added the Churchill reference to the list. I don't know why but its gone now (I'm sure his heart was in the right place). Miller was used as a reference, but it's true there are no direct citations from him.

• Which French regiment did he command under Turenne?

No, not a French regiment. It says English regiment remaining in French service. I think the regiment was a composite one with a detachment from the Admiralty Regiment.

• The King's Own Royal Regiment of Dragoons seems to have become the Royal Dragoons.

Yes, I think that's correct.

• No link to Monmouth Rebellion, which goes into more detail than Battle of Sedgemore

Done

• Is Lord Cornbury Edward Hyde, 3rd Earl of Clarendon?

Yes he is. Done

• The explanation of the "Camaret Bay letter" (i.e. the failed Attack on Brest) could be clearer.
• Blenhim passes in a flash (as do the later battles). Urban goes to some detail explaining how unusual it was for the British Army to march into the bowels of the continent to fight away from the support of the Royal Navy. The column contained a large component of non-British forces (a typical British strategy, given its small army - get others to do the fighting for you - see Wellington in the Peninsular and at Waterloo). Marlborough somehow pursuading the Dutch States-General to let him take their forces away from the Netherlands was also a coup, the force also moved exceptionally quickly due to Marlborough's planning, and to defeat the mighty French in pitched battle was almost unimaginable.
• Please explain Non Plus Ultra.

I've added a 'see map' and explained in the notes in more detail.

• There really ought to be more about Blenheim Palace, the commissioning of Vanbrugh, and problems in securing the funding to finish it. An image would be nice.

All in all, this is excellent. I hope the above does not put you off. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks all for your comments and thank you Aloan. The reason I didn't enter into detail about the battles and Blenheim Place etc was to keep the article down to a readable length. I had to include his personal life (how can you not include his nagging wife); the political as well as the military aspects. Therefore to balance these concernes meant sacrificing military detail. I also thought that these battles will have their own articles anyway (as does Blenheim palace) so I only gave a brief overview. I may have got the balance wrong, however. Raymond Palmer 21:36, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. I am going to reply down here:

• There is no need to avoid redlinks - that is how we know where there are gaps in our coverage.
• Re Tangier - I was wondering what a guardsman was doing there - was it a typical posting? Was he on a special mission?
• The Buffs were briefly the 4th (The Lord High Admiral's) Regiment, and later the 3rd Regiment of Foot. The 24th Regiment of Foot were the 2nd Warwickshire, and later South Wales Borderers.
• Perhaps the unused references are suitable "Further reading"?
• Sorry, I had the impression that he was commanding a French regiment, not a British one in French service. I would be slightly surprised if it were a composite regiment - can you check?
• This is a massive topic, and you have done a good job, but there are areas where more could be added - including the battles and architecture.
• I'll try to take the time to check out your other changes and copyedit later today. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:44, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

• I have copyedited - lots of fiddling but generally excellent, and a few more redlinks, but not excessively so. A couple of further things - his progeny are mentioned several times (younger son Charles; daughter Elizabeth, Countess of Bridgwater; daughter Anne, Countess of Sunderland) - should there be a list of his issue, and their marriages (if any)? Should there be a mention of the French antipathy to "Malbrouke". -- ALoan (Talk) 19:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

• There is a list of his legitimate children at Sarah Churchill, Duchess of Marlborough. The Duke's article mentions the death of his younger son in 1692, while he is in the Tower, but presumably the death of his elder son and heir, John - erstwhile Master of the Horse in fn.59 - in February 1702/3 must have been a crushing blow, having been made a Duke just a few months before in December 1702, and his wife now aged over 40.[1] It seems he also died of smallpox, while at Kings College, Cambridge.[2] The patents for his new titles were amended to allow his daughters to inherit. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:07, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• I am very close to supporting this, if you address my few outstanding queries. Are any further changes likely to happen? -- ALoan (Talk) 11:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support - Masterfully done. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:21, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

• Conditional support on adding some persondata RHB ^{Talk - Edits} 13:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.