Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/Love. Angel. Music. Baby.

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[edit] Love. Angel. Music. Baby.

Main page(s)	Articles
Love. Angel. Music. Baby.	What You Waiting For? - Rich Girl (Gwen Stefani song) - Hollaback Girl - Cool (song) - Luxurious - Crash (song)

The box contains the album and all of the singles released from it. Hollaback Girl and Cool (song) are both featured articles, and Love. Angel. Music. Baby., What You Waiting For?, and Rich Girl (Gwen Stefani song) are all listed as good articles. Luxurious has been a good article candidate for two and a half weeks and still isn't even at the top of the list, so I didn't want to wait forever before nominating (on a related note, is anyone willing to review that article to see if it qualifies for GA?). Crash (song) is the only article that hasn't been nominated for GA status, and I believe "achieving such a class is impossible". As I stated at the article's peer review, it's not that far above the notability requirements, and there aren't enough references available to address all the major aspects. Mainly, there were no interviews about the song, no sheet music was released, and very few reviews mentioned the song, so there's not enough reference material to address the music and structure of the song. ShadowHalo 20:35, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Being the first musical nomination to Featured Topics there is no standard to go by, however I would argue that the artist should be part of a nominated set - in this case Gwen Stefani. Currently her article is rated as B-Class and failed a Good Article nomination quite recently. Witty lama 02:18, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I would think it would be the reverse. For example, Chemical element would not be included if the Noble gas series were nominated, and Final Fantasy (series) shouldn't be included when the Final Fantasy VIII series is nominated. Really, the Love. Angel. Music. Baby. series is a subcategory of Gwen Stefani and her work. ShadowHalo 02:22, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
    • I agree totally with your argument in the examples you have given. Nevertheless, I see an artistic work as more than merely a sub-category of its artist. The purpose of Featured Topics is to be able to present complete concept that is self contained. I don't believe that any analysis of an artistic work would be complete without also discussing its creator. You could legitemately say that you know about Timeline of Canadian elections even if you didn't know a lot about Canada, but you can't legitemately say that you know about Fallingwater if you don't know about Frank Lloyd Wright IMHO. Of course, if all of Gwen Stefani's albums were featured topics then you couldn't have her article as part of all of them but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Witty lama 02:52, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
      • I don't see much information that would make the topic any more complete. For example, there are a few references to her appearance on "Let Me Blow Ya Mind", but Gwen Stefani doesn't (and shouldn't) give any more detail about the collaboration. There are also a couple references to her work with No Doubt, but the series provides enough background that including Gwen Stefani or No Doubt wouldn't add much to the topic. Pretty much, the Gwen Stefani article just summarizes the information from the Love. Angel. Music. Baby. series (per Wikipedia:Summary style) and then has for the most part irrelevant information about her other projects. ShadowHalo 03:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
      • Right now we have no examples of a topic that contains within it a higher-level article that the main article, and Love. Angel. Music. Baby. is clearly a subtopic of Gwen Stefani. But I think User:Witty lama has a point. A study of an artistic work would not be complete without a fairly thorough study of the artist. I think FT's goal of "thoroughly covering all parts of that topic through several high-quality articles" takes priority over the convention we've built of having the main article be the highest-level article in the topic. However this goes, I think we will have to talk about making a slight modification to the FT criteria to explain what to do in future cases like this. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 03:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
        • I've begun a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Featured topic criteria to that effect. Witty lama 04:30, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
      • I concur that a bio article is necessary for any complete discussion about an artists theme or works as a topic. Whereas, in a featured article about an album an internal link is sufficient, in a featured topic the artist is an integral part of the topic at hand. I would oppose this nomination without a GA Stefani article. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 14:51, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
• Comment Gwen Stefani should not be included in this nomination. How can the album be the main article with the artist as a sub article? That does not make any sense. Personally, I would have tried for main article FA before trying for FT. Jay32183 22:04, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Aside from the discussion of Stefani herself, I do agree with Jay32183 that the top article should be an FA before promotion. Witty lama 01:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I did put Love. Angel. Music. Baby. at FAC, but there were concerns about the tone of the article. I put in a request at WP:LoCE for a copyedit, but since nobody did a copyedit during the FAC, it has now been moved to the main list and it looks like it'll get a copyedit sometime in June since the top of the list is from January. I'm a little confused as to why the lead article would need to be FA when WP:WIAFT doesn't mention anything like that. ShadowHalo 11:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
    • This is true that having an FA main article is not one of the official criteria, but as the FT process is still quite new these criteria are still in formation. All of the current FTs have a FA top article (except the one on what is by far the single largest FT group). The smaller the size of the set of articles, the more necessary it is in my eyes that the percentage of FAs increases - especially the top article. This being one of the smaller sets, I think it is necessary.
• Comment The main article seems to tell me what I need to know about her to understand the song.--Rmky87 14:02, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
• Comment - the main article being FA is not a requirement. I'm more concerned about the non-GAness of the last 2 articles, but I still need to think my vote over. --PresN 19:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
• Conditional Support- My support is conditional based on Luxurious getting GA'd, but I disagree that Crash is non-GAable, and I think you should nominate it anyways. --PresN 19:44, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I've nominated Crash (song) at GAC then. I'm not sure how long FTCs usually last, but the GAC at the top is from March 18, so it could be a few weeks before it's reviewed. ShadowHalo 22:54, 8 April 2007 (UTC)