Talk:Feldenkrais method

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To amplify the example of a blind person learning to play the piano. Suppose this person learns to play well. Then he or she studies with a master and learns to play even better. It does not follow that the earlier playing was bad or that learning to play better is a treatment for it. Instead of focussing on specific skills like piano playing, Feldenkrais addressed our overall general abilities, the most general of which is movement itself. Changes to our most general ability are overall changes and can be undertaken without thinking about correcting or curing or healing anything. When a child learns to crawl that is a positive stage in its learning to walk. When it learns to walk the child does not cure itself of a negative state of crawling nor does it leave crawling behind as it learns to walk. Instead it develops crawling into walking as it improves its mobility and freedom in the world. In other words, things do not have to be wrong in order for us to want to do better. If that were so we would have no great musicians, no great actors, no great surgeons, no great artists, no great anything. Mediocrity would not just be the norm. It would be the rule. TB

Contents 1 body image 2 Possible linkspam 3 Influences 4 CAM Therapy

[edit] body image

Discussion about body image: the article describes body image first as arrangements of motor and sensory cortices, and mentions the homonoculus. This implies that CHANGES in body image somehow change the arrangement, which I don't think is true at all. A body image as I understand it has to do with our *conceptual* understanding of how our body "works", which is different than, and far more sophisticated than, a picture of a homonculous. I think this section could be greatly improved by giving a better and truer definition of body image. Ratsrcute 03:48, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible linkspam

There are a large number of links in this article appear to violate WP:EL and WP:SPAM. To change this, I propose removing the Influence on Somatics section and all links in the Resources and External links section that are to sites that "primarily exist to sell products or services" (which at a cursory glance appears to be almost all of them). --Ronz 21:46, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Removed Influence on Somatics after someone reverted it without discussion. --Ronz 15:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that the whole bottom section there is a bit muddled. I'd argue that, for example, Aikido and Eutony are far less relevant to this article than the things which were deleted - which were all specific derivations from the Feldenkrais method. I'm not sure they belong here either - but maybe rather an overview of the development of somatic methods and which influenced what on the common somatics page or similar? --KineticScientist 17:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

After Influence on Somatics was restored again without discussion, I've removed all the questionable external links. --Ronz 15:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Removed almost all the items from the "Resources and External links" section that appeared to violate WP:EL and/or WP:SPAM. If I removed a source for the page, the specific reference should be added into a References section with author, date, etc. I removed links to non-English sites as well. --Ronz 01:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I restored the links, allowing for proper discussion with the many authors of this article. The links you deleted were official non-profit guilds for the Feldenkrais method. They provide unique value not in the article and they are not spam. They satisfy both WP:EL and WP:SPAM and they satisfy the common sense of the many authors of this article. Some of the links are also sources for the article (I know 'cos I wrote much of the article). The sites provide neutral and accurate information that supports the article and provide the most useful external value you could for this article. Great care was taken by the original authors to provide the best and most neutral links possible.

Oddly, the one link you left at the bottom is the most dubious of all the links. Why did you leave this one dubious link? 211.26.207.79 08:51, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

And, oddly, you put a personal attack in your edit comment. Not appreciated. Commenting and editing anonymously doesn't help address the issue either. Since you claim to have written most of the article, then why not properly reference it? --Ronz 15:05, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Moving on... (At least we have the beginnings of a discussion, which is appreciated.) I suggest actual resources be listed as such, separated from external links so there is less confusion about what the links are and to make the article follow WP:V and WP:RS. As I understand, foreign-language links should be removed unless they're being used for sources, though I haven't tracked down policy and guidelines on this. --Ronz 15:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding your ideas about listing actual resources, external links and references, I completely agree with you. Please go ahead and do something constructive for the article. 211.26.207.79 04:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Looks like I already did. --Ronz 14:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Is that supposed to be civil? Wholesale deleting other peoples edits is very aggressive behaviour, and is discouraged on Wikipedia. You even stated that you only deleted the XL's in response to someone else's edit that you didn't like (stated above). Again, this is not civil. In general, you are too new to wikipedia to be effectively implementing linkspam policies. We do not need vigilantism and I'm sure you'll be formally warned if you continue deleting article content without actually making additive edits.

Consider whether you might have some information to actually want to add to an article somewhere? It's easy to come in and delete other peoples work, but it takes real effort, commitment, and positive character to actually add knowledge to wikipedia. I'm sure you'll agree with the thousands of editors that edit this way. Just give it a try.

Blessings. 211.27.117.141 01:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

More personal attacks? Sorry you don't like my editing. Sorry you don't like my pointing out a potential problem, proposing a solution, giving plenty of time for discussion, compromising on my proposal after discussion, then going through with the rest of my proposal. If this isn't positive enough for you, too bad. I'm not the one making repeated personal attacks here. --Ronz 14:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

As requested, by Ronz, I am summarizing a discussion about external links on the page for the Feldenkrais Method. Very simply, I put up a link to a page within a site that contains unique article about the Feldenkrais Method that I believed expands the understanding of topics not discussed on the main page. The link was removed as spam. I initiated a discussion with person who removed the link I posted making the following points:

- the official sites linked provide a lot of access to articles on the Method, as well as to merchandise such tapes, books, CDs and DVDs. - the last two sites currently posted are "non-official" sites and offer commercial services such as courses and merchandise. My point was that as an issue of fairness, either complete reliance on such information and access to merchandise be left to the official sites meaning removal of all private sites selling education or merchandiseOR the link I posted which was no more commercial than the others be also allowed as it contains real information not displayed on other sites. Teacher58 05:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)Teacher58

[edit] Influences

I've restored the influences section since there are plenty of reasons to expand this section. Please expand or edit the section accordingly. I've removed the external links, which will alleviate any concerns. 58.178.100.66 00:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CAM Therapy

I've restored the sentence on CAM Therapy in the introduction because it seems obvious to me that people who aren't part of the Feldenkrais clique need a proper context for it. Feldenkrais \is almost universally marketed as a therapy at therapeutic centres. Please reword the sentence if you see it can be improved. The intention is still to contextualise Feldenkrais realistically according to how it is actually used in communities (and not strictly according to what Feldenkrais' says). 58.178.103.56 23:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)