Talk:Ferdinand Foch

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Contents 1 Plan XVII 2 WWI position? 3 Ethnicity? 4 Work 5 Changes 6 Slow promotion?

[edit] Plan XVII

Isn't saying that it completely failed an opinion? I could probably think of a few arguments on why it was at least partialy succesful.

And the other thing is that he didn't design said plan in the first place. Plan XVII was developed by Foch's pupil Grandmaison, who completely distorted Foch's position. So let's not libel the poor fellow any more than we need to, eh? -Turi

Actually, Joffre must take responsibility for Plan XVII, although the 'cult of the offensive' can be laid at Grandmaison's door and he did indeed distort Foch's position. Foch said 'Fire has become the decisive argument’ in 1903, so he clearly was not in the morale wins all camp. See Joseph Joffre, The Memoirs of Marshall Joffre, (translated by T Bentley Mott, London, 1932), Vol. 1, pp. 48-9 & Ferdinand Foch, The Principles of War, (trans. Hilaire Belloc, originally published 1903, London: Chapman, 1920), p. 337. In addition, Hew Strachan has recently suggested that Plan XVII was very successful in terms of mobilisation, Strachan, First World War, p. 206. It is also worth bearing in mind that the much vaunted WW1 German army suffered just as appalling casualties during 1914 as did the French. Only the BEF, with its well trained regular soldiers, was able to display the skill needed to engage in modern battle, although even the BEF suffered serious casualties. The standard account on the 'cult of the offensive' is in Douglas Porch, March to the Marne, pp. 213-231 but also see Stefan T. Possony & Etienne Mantoux, ‘Du Picq and Foch: The French School,’ in Edward Mead Earle, ed., Makers of Modern Strategy, (Princeton: PUP, 1943), pp. 206-233, Michael Howard, ‘Men against Fire: The Doctrine of the Offensive in 1914,’ in Peter Paret ed., Makers of Modern Strategy, (Oxford: Clarendon, 1986), pp. 510 – 526, & for a modern French view; Michel Goya, La Chair et l’Acier – L’invention de la guerre moderne (1914-1918), (Paris: Tallandier, 2004), pp. 69-112. For a rather different view, see Paddy Griffith, Forward into Battle – Fighting Tactics from Waterloo to Vietnam, (Chichester; Anthony Bird, 1981), Chapter 4 & Azar Gat, Military Thought, pp. 382-440.

[edit] WWI position?

Generalissimo is italian and has no link back to Foch. Maxime Weygand article calls him Supreme Allied Commander, again an article apparently that has nothing to do with WWI and Foch. Perhaps somebody who knows more about this era and Foch should fix that matter. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:54, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnicity?

What is Foch's ethnic backround? Foch doesn't exactly sound French.

the ethnicity of Foch is quite french. in 1914, he wa at the head of the XX army corps (and not the XXX)

He's French by birth and never claimed to be anything but. Ethnically, however, he was the son of a Basque father and an Alsatian (the German-speaking people of Alsace) mother. His last name is Basque, derived from "fioch," the Basque word for fire. France has many Basques and Alsatians, they're French citizens just like everyone else.

[edit] Work

This article needs major improvement. Foch was a very significant figure in the French Army during the First World War and the paragraph concerning that conflict only deals with his role in 1918. J Gez M 17:02, 1st March 2006

You are, of course, welcome to make additions to the article to make it better. john k 19:08, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changes

Tried to improve things a bit as part of the collaboration of the week. I am happy to report that it is now much more substantial than the French Wiki article. Andreas 16:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slow promotion?

I think that unless it can be sourced, the half-sentence about his brother being a Jesuit and that holding back Foch's career, should go. I could not find anything on that on Google, but a WW I buff would come in handy now. Andreas

That was from Carver's book, I can add the reference later if you like. The sentence relates to the separation of religious and political or military power in France, officers were strongly discouraged from having links to religious groups. I don't understand the issue well enough to explain it concisely, so as it stands that sentence is a bit isolated. I wouldn't object to its removal just now, but the issue would be important enough to be discussed in a more in-depth article. Leithp 07:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi there - in that case I would suggest to add the citation and maybe a footnote. Otherwise it comes a bit out of the blue. Andreas 07:46, 31 March 2006 (UTC)