Talk:Fourdrinier machine
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To IP 64.80.135.34, I curious as to why you felt the need to remove the terms "web", "dandy roll" and "couch roll" from the Press Section of the article? I think those are fairly important terms to have in there. Care to explain? TimothyPilgrim 13:19, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] Fourdrinier machine
As I am a complete beginner at this extraordinary site, please forgive infelicitous format, etc.
I completely agree that the excision of dandy roll, couch etc is in correct and unhelpful. These terms are still in use today. The dandy roll puts the water mark on the paper and was patented for this purpose in 1839 (Joynson). Its original use had been to produce a finish more like hand made paper. The couch roll is a key item on the machine as it is here that the web is gripped for removal from the wire and transmission to the next section. Couch moreover, being derived from the French "coucher", to lay down, reminds us that until the invention of the machine in principal by Louis Robert in the midst of the French Revolution, paper was hand made and laid on the post (pile of wet sheets ready for pressing, by the "coucheur" or in English. the coucher. The machine is called Fourdrinier after the two brothers of that name who financed its development in England after various shinannigins whereby the design and sample paper was taken to England. Athough preceded by developmental patents, the key patent is 3068 of 1807 to Fourdriniers and Gamble. Bryan Donkin was the key engineer in the development. The first commercial machine, crude as it was, was installed at Frogmore, Hertfordshire in 1804 and this was followed by another experiment and then a better version at Two Waters nearby in 1805. This machine cost £4204.
This early machine made paper was of course rag based. Wood came along much later.
The reference to aligning the fibres is I think also incorrect. The whole point about paper is that the fibres are NOT aligned.
At least the comment in a local history article in Somerset England that the "four Drinier brothers" were involved has been avoided
BGL
[edit] it is spelled calender I changed it
It is spelled Calender, not Calendar. One is a papermaking piece of equipment, the other tells you what day it is. ;)
[edit] Function of the slice
i have edited out one gross error from the "Wet end" section (not that I'm at all happy with the rest!). The slice does NOT regulate the mass per square meter ("grammage") of the paper. This is done earlier in the approach flow to the machine, by controlling the consistency (% solids content) and rate of flow of stock. The slice only controls the volume of flow onto the wire, which is governed by the volume of dilution water picked up at the fan pump. As regards fibre alignment: the fibres in machine-made papers are, in fact (owing to the motion of stock and wire), aligned to some degree, with a preponderance of fibres aligned toward the machine direction. This affects the properties of paper, which are quite different in the two directions ( called "machine direction" and cross-machine direction"): the paper is said to be "anisotropic". In hand-made papers, the directional distribution of fibres is random; the properties of the paper (Tearing resistance, tensile strength) are the same in whatever direction they are measured. Hand-made papers are said to be "isotropic".
lionello
[edit] Press Update
Guys;
I just made some massive changes to press. I hope that it meets everyones approval.
I like the way this page is done, but I was thinking maybe we should "dumb down" or get better links on other pages to bring people here, like on that papermaking page that has absolutely nothing to do with modern papermaking.
I would also like to introduce different formers (inverform, belbond, duoformers, mini-fourdriniers) that relate to standard fourdriniers. Not sure how to handle non-fourdrinier former types, but they need access somehow to calenders, dryers, and press without having to refer to fourdriniers.
Thoughts? Shoud we sectionalise the fourdrinier machine page?
Thanks;
Anthony
[edit] Removing Charles Kinsey
After reading several 19th century books on paper-making history, in particular, the Fourdrinier Paper-Making Machine from Paper Manufacturing in the United States, 1916, [1], I find nothing to support the claim that Charles Kinsey had any significant contribution in the development of the Fourdrinier paper-making machine. In fact, Fourdriner's British patent of July 1806 pre-dates by almost a year Kinsey's US patent of May 1807. Further, the books I have read give credit to Louis Robert in France.
Therefore, until someone more knowledgeable than I can furnish references to support returning it, I am removing the following paragraph:
"Invented by Charles Kinsey of Paterson, New Jersey with foreign patents secured in 1807 and 1808, the "wooden man" as it was called (owing to the prototype being made entirely from wood), became the Fourdrinier Machine after Kinsey's rights were conveyed to Messrs. H. and F. Fourdrinier of France, who improved on its design."
This paragraph of information appears to come from a web page on ancestry [2] which is in error when referring to "H. and F." Fourdriner, since Henry collaborated with his brother Sealy. So who is "F" ?
IGE
