Talk:Francisco de Vitoria

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[edit] Relectiones

It is unclear to me the extent to which Relectiones XII Theologicae is distinct from the "notes of his lectures" referred to in the article. It was published over a century after his death; it clearly includes "De Indis" and "De Ivre Belli" (== "De Jure Belli", the distinction is only typographical for Latin), both listed among the lecture notes published in the 1530s. - Jmabel | Talk 05:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vitoria's position on imperialism

I am a bit puzzled with the statement that Vitoria was used to justify Spanish imperialism. In _Relatos y Relaciones de Hispanoamérica colonial_ Otto Olivera says, “Vitoria, basándose principalmente en la Summa theologica de Santo Tomás, desde su cátedra en la Universidad de Salamanca, destruye todos los argumentos que intentaron justificar la conquista, esgrimiendo los principios de libertad, la guerra justa y el derecho de gentes. Sus discípulos habían de extender por América, España y Europa su prédica, de modo que por ella se le considera el iniciador del derecho internacional moderno.” So, if I take Olivera seriously (whom is an authority on the subject), Vitoria did not serve to justify, but on the other hand, to criticize Spanish imperialism in the Americas. (Citation comes from the first page of the introduction, “I”). Dennishidalgo|Talk January 21, 2007

• For those who don't read Spanish, the quoted passage says, "Vitoria, basing principally on the Summa theologica of Saint Thomas, from his chair at the University of Salamanca, destroyed all the arguments that intended to justify the conquest, wielding the principals of liberty, the just war, and the right/law of peoples. His disciples had extended through America, Spain and Europe and preached, in a manner such that by this one may consider him the initiator of modern international human rights." - Jmabel | Talk 05:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The article could probably do with being more nuanced than it is. De Indis includes a long section on "unjust titles" which have falsely been claimed to give the Spanish a right to empire, but this is immediately followed by a section on "just titles." Vitoria then provides a number of circumstances in which Spanish empire would be justified. De Indis can be read, then, as a primarily a criticism of current Spanish practice in the New World, or as primarily a justification of the principle of Spanish conquest; the correct interpretation is a matter of scholarly debate. Anthony Pagden's Lords of All the World deals with this question in some detail, if I remember rightly. VoluntarySlave 19:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)