User talk:Gadget850/Archive (Mar 2006)

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Grazon 2 Userboxes 3 Wood Badge cat 4 Scouting Barnstarn 4.1 Scouting Barnstar - Where to put it? 5 Category:Scouting 6 Please adopt your state 7 Ranks 8 Category war 9 BSA Articles 10 Removal 11 Mentor Pin 12 PNG vs GIF 13 Varsity Scouts 14 Peer Review 15 Scouting barnstar 16 KISC 17 List of notable Scouts 18 Thank you for your work on BSA page 19 Footnotes 20 Camp Tuckahoe 21 Scouting caps 22 Editing 23 Image Tagging Image:Mr-36f.gif 24 Rank issues 25 Gulf War 26 Old Scout patches 27 Persian Gulf War

Grazon

Gadget850: User:Grazon took out Brescia again from the Eagles list. I'm about to tell him off. I personally don't care if Brescia is on it or not. What I do care about is the edit war he's starting and him not heeding the criterion that's agreed to on the talk page. One more time and I will get on him. At the last second, I thought for this time I'd tell you. Thanks for your work on the Scouting articles. Rlevse 22:54, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Userboxes

Chris asked me to make regular userboxes out of the ones he has in his workshop, which you are using. To change to the Wiki userbox (which is exactly the same, but now part of Wiki proper and not his workshop), add the {{User ScoutGuide}} box to your page. There is also a {{User ScoutTrade}} one for collectors. Both are in the userbox [category]. These will add you to appropriate categories too. See my user page for an example. I also made a {{User Wood Badger}} userbox. Rlevse 20:01, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Wood Badge cat

Ed: take a look at Category:Wood Badger Wikipedians and look at the edit war User:Silence started. I left a note on his talk page. What do you make of this? I don't see the rationale. He did this to the Eagle Scout cat too. Rlevse 19:00, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Scouting Barnstarn

Did you see this proposal? Scouting Barnstarn --evrik 19:50, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Scouting Barnstar - Where to put it?

I believe that the award that was created for the Scouting Barnstar should be a topical award. Scouting is a world-wide movement that has served youth in many countries for more than 100 years and represents the youth of the world at the United Nations.

It has been suggested that the award be given as a PUA. The first line on the PUA page reads, "This page provides a collection of awards created by individual Wikipedians." The Scouting Barnstar was created by the WikiProject Scouting.

Currently, the is a discussion going on at Wikipedia_talk:Barnstars#Removed_the_scouting_barnstar. Please comment there if you are interested.evrik

Category:Scouting

BSA is not listed as a sub category of Scouting, although I agree it should be. --Bduke 12:42, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Non of the national org articles are sub cats of Scouting, they are in WOSM, WAGGGS, " or "Non-aligned Scouting organizations".

The BSA category is a sub of "Scouting by country", as are all the country categories.Rlevse 22:24, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Please adopt your state

I have now completed the transition from state list to articles on Scouting in each state, as per Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/RulesStandards, for merger and improvement of articles. Please help fill in some blanks at Scouting in Virginia! Thanks, YiS, Chris 09:22, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Ranks

Ed: See my last comment on the rank article issue. Are you ready and willing to proceed? Rlevse 21:04, 26 January 2006 (UTC), Randy

Category war

Please see Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_January_27#.5B.5B:Category:Boy_Scouts_of_America_controversy.5D.5D_and_.5B.5B:Category:Boy_Scouts_of_America_controversies.5D.5D_to_.28he_didn.27t_say_what.29 and comment on the two listing on Scouting categories. Rlevse 13:08, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

BSA Articles

Ed: Very good on both sandboxes! Are you going to do this before, after or in conjunction with the rank and recognition series? I left comments in the boxes. Rlevse 02:41, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Removal

Hi, see if my most recent edit helped. The error was inadvertent. Squamate 17:15, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Mentor Pin

Ed: I'm not sure what you meant by the Eagle mentor pin being new. It's been around since at least early 2004., YIS, Randy Rlevse 16:22, 9 February 2006 (UTC) PS: Great work going on with the Advancement articles!

You are right- it was introduced in 2004. We did not have any Eagles last year (only year in the 12 I've been with this troop, and we should have 6 this year), so it was new to me, and I just stumbled across it.

And thanks. I must admit to an ulterior motive on Cub Scouts (Boy Scouts of America). Since I'm the scribe for the next Wood Badge course here, the first issue of the Gilwell Gazette is going to have a history of Cub Scouts. The next will have a Boy Scout history and the fifth will be Venturing. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:47, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I was Scribe for the last WB course we had, in Fall 2005. I had a Scout Trivia section in the Gazette. I also teach our History of Scouting class at our Univ. of Scouting. Rlevse 16:56, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

PNG vs GIF

Ed: I switched the project and portal to the GIF format and they look fine. However, when I do that to the userboxes, they just don't look right to me. Can you look into this? How is the rank restructuring going? Tks, YIS, Randy Rlevse 15:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

PS: maybe we should change the image border color to the same as the project tag. Rlevse 16:44, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Varsity Scouts

I noticed that the Varsity Scouts article had essentially the same text as a previous version of the BSA Requirements. I had updated that article extensively last week, and added images today. I copied the text over into the advancement section. What else can I be of help with? NThurston 22:45, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I am not planning on making any major additions to the content at this point. I like what you have done to the formatting. I do think the five program areas of emphasis need to figure prominently, as they are the basis for Varsity Scouting. The rest of my edits have been copy editing. NThurston 15:36, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, mostly style differences. I am ok either way, except I think that there needs to be a way to emphasize the five program areas of emphasis. I agree that === wasn't the best idea. I kind of liked how * worked, though. I'll look at the other pages to see if I can find some common ground that doesn't cause the information to get washed out of context. Please check back later to see if you like what I end up proposing.NThurston 15:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I looked at the troop level page you propose, and basically it's fine. I wonder where you would include the "program" descriptions, such as Aims and Methods and things like that. NThurston 15:56, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Aims are already in the lead-in. Activities is changing to program and activities across the series. Do you have anything on the initial numbers on Varsity Scouts are like I have in the lead-in on Cub Scouts (Boy Scouts of America)?--Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:03, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't have any numbers, yet. But I will scout around for them, pun intended. NThurston 21:06, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Peer Review

I moved the portal below the image. See if you can get the body text equal to the logo, it doesn't look good starting so far down. I'm swamped this week, so leave the peer review up until at least next Monday. Feel free to remind me again next Monday. I'll work on it as best I can. Rlevse 17:09, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I resized it: it does look better now. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:38, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I did a run through with several edits. I'll look more later. You'll need lots of different-sourced footnotes if you want this to be a FA. Rlevse 16:52, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Looks good. I reverted some of the pack caps though; pack is only capped when referring to a specific unit or program. See Language of Scouting --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:49, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm.... leader titles are not capped either unless as part of an award or part of the program. Thus den chief and Den Chief Award; but Scoutmaster and Cubmaster. Also see the entry on [capitalization --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:53, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I looked this over again. Nothing leaps out at me except there're only two footnotes, which is only an issue if you want to make it an FA. Also, the footnote/ref standards are always changing, so that's a crapshoot to predict until the point you submit for FAC. I still like the ref/note system. Rlevse 19:51, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Scouting barnstar

A hearty thank you for all of your hard work on Scouting articles, especially on reorganizing BSA advancements. Keep up the fine work!

Rlevse 13:24, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

KISC

Hey, I notice your intrested in Kandersteg International Scout Centre from the WikiProject Scouting page! Are you Ex-Staff or Member of the Association? Or are you just a Regualar Guest who loves the place?!!! Ablaze 15:19, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

During my army career, I lived in Neu-Ulm, Germany for six years. I was in the Alpine District of the Transatlantic Council and spent many weekends at Kandersteg. We held our Klondike Derby at KISC every January. I did my Ordeal in the Order of the Arrow at KISC: if you look at the webcam [1], you will see the fence rails on the other side of the road that I helped build. I want to expand and polish the KISC article after I get some other projects done here. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm Ex-Staff from 2003 and 04! I know all about the Klondike Weeks and TAC! Excellent to find another peoson who has such an intrest in KISC! Ablaze 20:18, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Cool. I was last in germany from 1985-89. - Ed

List of notable Scouts

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to even have this article.

A disturbing # of people out there hate the BSA and they would love to add bad people to this sort of list in an attempt to discredit scouting.

To make maters worse lots "special news reports" on shows like Nightline start off horrible stories about bad people by telling us they were once in cub scouts to help create a sense of he-was-once-normal-WTF-happend? and since it's easier to molest a kid than it is to be a Congressman the # of sickos will be greater than the # that turned out better than normal.

What do you think? {unsigned by Grazon}

I have a feeling it's not going to go much beyond a stub and will get deleted. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 08:55, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok

PS sorry I didn't sign the first time grazon 23:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your work on BSA page

Thank you for your reorganization work on the Boy Scouts of America article. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to support your efforts. I'll keep an eye out and try to jump in if the opportunity presents itself. GreggHilferding 04:42, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Footnotes

Take a look at the new Cite.php footnote style at Wikipedia:Footnotes. This looks much easier to manage. I converted James E. West (Scouting) to the new style and used the cite web template. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:36, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I HATE cite php because it makes reading the article while in edit mode difficult and awkward. I saw you'd changed the West article. While I detest this method and the guides still say you can use ref/note, the wind is obviously blowing in the direction of cite php (look at all the recent FA candidates and FAs -- most use php); so I've been debating what to do about it and if it's worth me sticking with ref/note. For anything we try to get to FA, we should probably use it, but one is also not required to change old articles--such as there is no requirement to change my FA on merit badges and I don't intend to. Do you desire to make something FA? Thoughts? Rlevse 11:51, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't see it as a requirement for FA, and it may not be that useful for articles with only a few notes. It would really shine with an article with a lot of notes that are used multiple times since you can create ids.--Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:59, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

You can create ids with ref/note too, just type them. My reference to FA/FAC is merely that cite is what the vast majority are using now. I'm still undecided on this except that I still hate having to jump over references in the middle of text when editing. Rlevse 14:11, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Camp Tuckahoe

Thanks for your advice here, as well for taking care the Cr issue. I've added some content to the article, and I hoped that you might look it over when you had some free time. The article still is a stub, but at least it has some of the basics now. Also thanks for fixing my mistakes with how I was using scout camp categories a little while ago. -- 63.226.38.196 02:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

No problem: just pay it forward. Did I note the problem with the article title? Compare it to the other camps. I just remove dCategory:Boy Scouts of America as Category:Boy Scout reservations is a subcategory therof. I have made a proposal to rename Category:Boy Scout reservations: see Category talk:Boy Scout reservations. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Scouting caps

Yes, I have read the LOS, which is why I didn't go back and change anything. I just don't agree with their cap rules. For instance, to me it should be Junior Assistant Scoutmaster, not junior assistant Scoutmaster, etc. --Emb021 20:13, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I've got to go with Emb021 on this one. "Patrol Leader", "Junior Assistant Scoutmaster", and all unit jobs (youth or adult) are titles of specific jobs and as such should be capitalized. Not capitalizing them makes it look like a generic phrase; it's like not capitalizing Systems Engineer on a business card. I know it says otherwise in the LOS and the Scout handbook has them lowercase, but I have always disagreed with it. On the other hand, I do agree with Ed that we need to be consistent throught the Scouting articles. Rlevse 21:42, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Rlevse echoes my views on caps in regards titles. As to consistency, you're not going to get an argument from me. I fully supported the proposed layouts that Ed proposed and have been trying to be sure we have some good articles. I've lost count of the number of scouting related articles I've had to fix things along those lines, as I'm sure the rest of us have. --Emb021 22:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Editing

BTW: We were both adding the same info (Brownsea etc.) to the Boy Scouts (Boy Scouts of America) article at the same time. When I tried to save, I got the edit conflict message and simply pasted my edits back in until I could see what had been added. Weird how that happened.

Annoying is what I would say. I've been burned 2-3 times because of that, loosing stuff I wrote and had to re-create it.

FWIW, I've been in Scouting since 1969 and Venturing since 1999. Doc Miller's office is about 10 minutes from here: he was my Wood Badge counselor. Seems like we have a lot of the same interests. I've seen your web site, and indeed have referenced it several times, before I knew that was you. It does have a bit of a bandwith cap, so I can only get so many looks before it closes. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:18, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Lucky. Very early 70s was when I joined Cub Scouts. I was involved in Exploring before the split, and automatically moved over and was aware, thru on-line sources, about the change. Doc Miller was always this mythical figure I heard of. Never got to met him until this past January at Sea Base. Being a local nobody, I don't get to move in those circles. Yeah, I hate the bandwith cap, but its free. --Emb021 22:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Mr-36f.gif

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:Mr-36f.gif. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then there needs to be an argument why we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then it needs to be specified where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, consider reading fair use, and then use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, consider checking that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Shyam ^(T/C) 22:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Checked the article I placed this in and the image is now redundant. Delete it. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Rank issues

Ed: Pls update me on the rank issues. I'm getting confused on all the changes. If done, delete items from Todo page "current issues". Except for Eagle, where did they end up and in what form? YIS, Randy Rlevse 23:18, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. They were merged into Boy Scouts (Boy Scouts of America) --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:36, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah. Nice job. I agree to leave our requirements as they change often. Rlevse 11:03, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Actually, I think it would be a good policy to not include complete lists of requirements, but a reference. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:31, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Gulf War

Sorry, yes there were some crossed wires. I thought it best to stick just with "Gulf War", which is better understood in common parlance than "Persian Gulf War".--Ahwaz 17:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm not particulary fond of the term, but is the accepted one. I prefer Liberation of Kuwait myself. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:56, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Old Scout patches

I was just over at our Scout center: they still have a quantity of assistant Scoutmaster Varsity and Venture crew chief emblems for sale. Let me know if you want one. --Gadget850 ( Ed)

Persian Gulf War

The full name is "Persian Gulf War", "Gulf War" is simply the shortened version of the full name "Persian Gulf War" used in common situations, but still the full encyclopedic title is "Persian Gulf War" as used by other authoritative encyclopedias. Please restore the original version. --ManiF 21:49, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Why? Very little of the war took place in the body of water known as the Persian Gulf. And why me? Gulf War was developed by consensus long before I became a Wikipedia editor. I've simply defended the useage of a term developed by consensus (and one that I personally don't care for). This is the ENGLISH Wikipedia, and Gulf War was the term in use by English speaking contries at the time. Focus on the article, not the terms. What encyclopedias are you referring to? --Gadget850 ( Ed)

I'm not aware of this "consensus" you are speaking about. Regardless, such consensuses are not arbitrary and the the full encyclopedic title should be "Persian Gulf War" as indicated by Encyclopedia Britannica [2] , Encyclopedia Encarta [3], Encyclopedia.com [4], The Columbia Encyclopedia [5] and every other major Encyclopedia out there. --ManiF 16:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Then take it up on the talk page. If you really feel this stongly about it, you should be making a proposal to move the article to Persian Gulf War; else leave it alone. Personally, I would just as soon see it under Liberation of Kuwait. I am not the only editor to defend against these name changes. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:18, 29 March 2006 (UTC)