Talk:Ganges

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[edit] Ganga, the Hindu Goddess

"The river, held sacred by Hindus, is worshipped as the personified form of the goddess Ganga after whom the river is named."

This sentence is ridiculous. First off, it is the river that is personified, not the goddess. The goddess is the personification of the river, and not vice versa. And the river is not named after the goddess. Rather the goddess is named after the river. There was always a river before the vedic hindus came along and made it a goddess.

[edit] Ganga vs Ganges

Opinions sought. =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:41, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Ganga

Ganga is the correct name. Ganges is a colonial British corruption of Ganga. While Ganges may be used, it is becoming antiquated especially among Indian speakers of English. A search for 'Oxus' on Wikipedia redirects to Amu Darya, even though Oxus was the name used for centuries in the Western world. Therefore, the article should be under Ganga, with Ganges ridirecing to Ganga.

The name Ganga is prevalent among anglophones too, and as noted below, a google search indicates that it is more widely used than 'ganges'. The argument that more Indian pages using the name 'Ganga' overwhelms the non-Indian pages proves nothing. India has a large population that uses English as a first language (And if we're counting everybody who speaks english, first language or not, this number is likely to surpass even the population of the US) and is, therefore, correctly labeled a (partly) anglophone country. Why should Indian English be relegated to a status below that of American or British English? Spanish spoken in South America is still Spanish.

As for other arguments, Germans do not speak English, nor do they refer to their country as Deutschland when speaking in English, whereas many if not most Indians do, in fact, use the name Ganga in English.

Most Japanese (who do not speak English) use Wikipedia in their own language and therefore use the term Nippon, although the name Japan is almost always used in English, even in Japanese governmental bulletins issued in English. Indians who primarily use English as their first language (and I believe most users of WIkipedia fall in this category) may refer to the river as Ganga or Ganges, so 'Ganga' isn't the name of the river ONLY in Indian languages.

Yes, why compromise on actual and original name which is quite prevalent as well, Ganges can always redirect to Ganga. --Vjdchauhan 09:15, 26 February 2007 (UTC).
Its got more ghits and it is the correct name for the river.Baka man 23:15, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I prefer Ganga as per the reasons given by the above two users .--Shyamsunder 13:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Ganges

As a person whose ethnic origin is Indian but who lives in a English-speaking country, I believe Ganges it still by far the notable name. Ganga may have entered Indian English, but it is still essentially the name of the river only in the Indian languages. Gizza^Chat ^© 07:13, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, the article should be moved to "Ganges". Ganges river, Ganga river should redirect there. In fact, at present Ganga is a dab page that enumerates all Ganga stuffs. IMO, Ganga should also redirect to Ganges, with an otheruses template for Ganga added in Ganges. Ganga and Ganges both primarily mean the river to the worldwide audience. Thereafter comes the meanings such as the goddess, or the dynasty etc. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 08:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I opt for Ganges. The river is referred to by that name. I assume the official Indian govt name is also Ganges, right? --Ragib 09:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I also opt for Ganges. This is an English-language encyclopedia. As an English speaker of South Asian origin, I can say I've only heard "Ganges" (in English). Similarly, I would opt for calling the "Germany" article "Germany" on en-wiki, not "Deutschland", and the "Japan" article "Japan", not "Nippon". --SameerKhan 08:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Comments

I partially agree with DaGizza. Although the word "Ganga" is used both as English and Hindi word for the river, but other English speaking countries predominantly use "Ganges" for the river. However, a googlefight between the two confuses me as "Ganga" gets 1.5 times ghits as compared to "Ganges". — Ambuj Saxena (☎) 07:26, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
may be this googlefight result is because of (a) Most Websites in India usually call it Ganga, and number of Indian websites mentioning Ganga outnumbers foreign/Indian websites using Ganges. (b) The other Gangas are also included in the fight. In fact, this googlefight of Ganga river vs Ganges river gives opposite result!--Dwaipayan (talk) 08:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm neutral =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:41, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Question Does anybody else think inviting Wikipedia:WikiProject Rivers members would be a good idea? We should therefore get more people from all around the globe who are interested in rivers to comment on this. Ah... I have also found the official river naming policy here in case anybody wants to see. Gizza^Chat ^© 11:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC
India has more English speakers than the United States. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a website that reinforces stereotypes. The people of India, where this river runs though, call it Ganga. Even the English media in India call it so. It is its English name. But it seems that here in Wikipedia, its only "English" if people in the United States call it "Ganga" rather than "Ganges." I support Ganga because its what the Indian people call it in English. The difference with Germany is that the government says that their country's English name is Germany. In India, however, the official name is still Ganga for English. I would consider this a bias to English speakers living in India.

[edit] River Ganges?

Why was the article moved? I see the explanation provided in edit summary as "Commonwealth naming", but if I recall correctly, I never saw much of "river x" when describing Bangladeshi rivers. In fact, "Ganges River" seem to be more popular than "River ganges". So, I'm curious, what's the more prevalent form in use in India? At least in Bangladesh, the other form is vastly more popular. Thanks. --Ragib 08:24, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I've mostly been taught using the form River Ganges, and this seems to be prevalent in Commonwealth English. Wikipedia:WikiProject Rivers#Naming seems to hold this true. See also a Times of India article where they use River Ganga. Many seem to have the opinion that Ganges should be the river title name. I suppose that would be more neutral. =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, ok, I guess the style is prevalent in India. It's quite interesting that "Padma River" or "Meghna River" is more commonly used in Bangladeshi English language books/news papers. Perhaps the style has evolved differently in Bangladesh. So, River Ganges is fine, I guess. I agree with the term Ganges. --Ragib 09:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

"Ganga" might have more google hits, but that is also partly due to other meanings of the term, e.g., Darren Ganga, etc. I would not recommend using google test for this. Encarta and Britannica both use Ganges. deeptrivia (talk) 22:35, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

Just storing these here so that I can easily access them:

=Nichalp «Talk»= 17:39, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

A few more:

[http:// www.unescap.org /enrd/water_mineral/disaster/flood management in ganga.doc] from [1], or as html in [2]
http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/hodgson/Courses/so191/SouthAsReadings/GangesDecline.html
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2004/02/08/stories/2004020800911100.htm
http://www.cs.albany.edu/~amit/ganges.html
http://www.kamat.com/indica/rivers/ganga.htm
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/resourcesquality/wpccasestudy1.pdf

--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

Nichalp, these links fulfill points 3 and 4 in What_should_be_linked. They provide either academic or visual content directly related to Ganga. --Jan

Sacred Ganga
Bibliography on Water Resources and International Law.
Toxin-Phage Bacteriocide as an Antibiotic Therapy
Friends of Ganges
Gomukh to Ganga Sagar, Virtual Tour with all Details
Ganga Arati Video Quicktime streaming video of worship of the Ganges in Hardwar (15 minutes)
Mother Ganga: A journey along the sacred Ganges River a movie (a free trailer download) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.208.2.214 (talk) 22:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

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Talk:Ganges

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[edit] Ganga, the Hindu Goddess

[edit] Ganga vs Ganges

[edit] River Ganges?

[edit] References

[edit] External links

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