Talk:Gematria
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[edit] Comment 1
Quite off the point. The most common use of Gematria is hardly to do with the Sephiroth etc, let alone geometrical shapes. The Gematria of a word is, indeed, its numerical value as calculated by the common table Aleph = 1, Beth = 2 etc. Yod = 10, Kaf = 20 etc. Kuf = 100, Resh = 200. Its uses then lie in finding words and sentences with a similar value, if necessary employing the Kollel (+/- 1). Gematria is used by the Torah commentator Baal ha-Turim as well as many after him (the Keli Yakar, the Chassidic giants).
[edit] Mathematical value
Shouldn't there be a section regarding criticisms of this numerology? I've heard that mathematicians have pretty much entirely debunked the study. Not to mention that there is really no predicting power of the numbers. It seems people always find messages about events after they happen in contrived forms. I mean is this really any better that retooling the predictions of Nostradamus? jordan 02:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- I would have to sort of agree with the above. What I would really like to see is a statistical distribution of the prevalence of meaningful Gemmatrial word tuples (a,b,c) where a,b have a gemmatrial/mathematical relation to c (addition, subtraction?) in several different languages (probably excluding vowels if the purpose is to contrast them to Hebrew). Then one could use statistical methods to determine if these tuples were more prevalent in Hebrew than other languages and whether this was statistically significant. Of course this might take several decades on a supercomputer, but it is probably the only form of proof that would convince me that Gemmatria is not just an example of the power of working backwards. (AH)
[edit] New Tool Link
All - I've added a new tool link to the Gematria page. I've read the request to post here about it - though I went ahead an added the content to the page now because I'd probably forget to come back to this page for a month or two. I added it on the grounds that it is a compelling tool; though I may have made the description too long in presenting this. I'll let the community decide if they're in agreement with my addition. --ZCJ 06:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Removing Link asking for source cite
I am removing the link attached to the description, it links to a masonic website which does deal with gematria since it is placed at the end of a section I find controversial it gives the appearance of being a sited source. The statement attempts to state that other forms of gematria predate the hebrew version, I am not stating that this is true or false I AM stating that I don't beleive it is actually known and is therefore a personal opinion. The link at the end of the statement in any case does not appear to back up the statement. Can anyone verify these statements? --Chaoscrowley 03:59, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I have also removed the statement that the final forms are not used in "non-mystical numeration." This is simply false the final forms are used. In the next few days if no one is opposed I will be doing some major re-edits of this page. I feel it does not properly categorize the forms of Gematria and at times runs into long discussions that don't relate directly to the subject. --Chaoscrowley 04:13, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Table of final values
Based on a conversation with OwenX recorded on my talk page I've added a table to show the different values that are sometime assigned to the final forms of those Hebrew letters that have them. While I'm at I'm going to try and clean up the inconsistencies in the appearance of the word gematria. I'm changing all instances to italic, except the first, and changing all to lower case where they are not the initial word of a sentence. < Puck 03:40, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Sefirah
Seeing no link to that word, I discover that "the neutrality, etc." Can you help ?
Thank you. --DLL 23:00, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
-
- The article states : "Gematria is a system of recognizing a correspondence between the ten sefirot" - same word, different number.
- The help I request is less for the link than for the related article, which seems to need correction. I won't create a link if the author here agrees to the needs there and declined to make the link himself. --DLL 00:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Link to Gematria site
I'm reposting this from the HelpDesk.
Jfdwolff - Moderator Subject: Gematria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria There are several "External Links" below that link to web pages that allow the user to do "Gematria" which is the conversion of Hebrew or Greek letters into numerals. I put up a link because my site deals with this subject matter and has a far better tool to do the calculations then the ones currently there or on the internet for that matter. Those pages have Ads and Banners. Mine does not, nor does it ask for donations. It's not selling Viagra or anything else, just offering up a useful tool for people out there that do what I do. I have thousands of words in my data base that I give for free when dealing in this topic, yet the moderator "Jfdwolff" decided I'm some kind of self spammer to promote a commerical site. Commercial -Of, relating to, or being goods, often unrefined, produced and distributed in large quantities for use by industry (none of which I do its all FREE) I'ts a real shame he would remove my link to a useful tool that people want for free and keep these other links that are complete garbage. Please take the time to examine my tool compared to the other sites you allow External links to. The current links: http://www.c2kb.com/gematria/ http://www.baraksh.co.il/webgim/ http://hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_Eight/Hebrew_Gematria/hebrew_gematria.html http://www.shmulik.co.il/gmatrix/ My site and tool: http://www.numberman.net/Greek_Gem_Calculator.html http://www.numberman.net/Hebrew_Gem_Calculator.html
[edit] Greek Gematria & English Gematria Simplex
Gematria is also used with the Greek alphabet. The Greek form of Jesus (Iesous) adds up to 888 in classical Greek gematria, one greater than the mystical perfection of 777. In English gematria simplex (A-1 to Z-26), Iesous adds up to 88, and provides a mystical connection with our past. Christ adds up to 77, mankind to 66 and Satan to 55. Mankind is positioned between Christ and Satan in Ouzo combinations (repetitions of the same digit). Additional information can be found in "The Ouzo Prophecy".
Robert Merlin Evenson/Church of Ouzo
bobevenson@yahoo.com
If Wikipedia is here to help expand knowledge then this paticular subject of Gematria suffers from allowing the moderator to remove useful links for people to reference. I can't upload the tool nor can I possibly upload several thousand Greek and Hebrew words with their numeric values for people to study. I would like the moderator to reconsider what he has done as I see it highly unfair and unprofessional. Kindly restore my links or remove these others as they then would qualify as garbage links. I would fix it, but the moderator would then restore it to his liking again. Thanks for your time
Could someone please take a look at the site and investigate his claims? --HelpRing 02:14, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
- A website posted by a username with the same name (NumberMan (talk • contribs)). It relies on Flash rather than the much more straightforward Javascript. But NumberMan does not know that I never removed the links. Other users did. All I did was leave {{spam}} on his talkpage, which I felt was justified given that the URL was posted on 10 pages. Instead of leaving a message on my talkpage he sends me an email and runs to the helpdesk. Please WP:COOL. JFW | T@lk 01:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Biblical Language Gematria Tables
Are there any objections to including Gematria Tables for the Biblical Languages here?
[edit] Reference needed
I object to using Abarim Publications' Bible Commentary: What If The Best Isn't Good Enough? as a reference. It's an online (=unedited, unscrutinized) commentary by someone promoting mystical, transcendental Biblical theories, and the "fact" assertion is made in a totally offhand manner, without any citation. This is not the sort of reference we use in Wikipedia. I don't know if it is true that the Hebrews had NO means at all of expressing fractions (= quantities less than 1). Both the ancient Egyptians and the Romans did. I'm going to zap the weak "reference" and flag the assertion with {{fact}} so that it attracts editorial attention. In the meantime, I will look through my own library to see if I can find any support for the assertion. --Cbdorsett 05:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
