Talk:German mark

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The picture of the 20 Mark bill (added by Quadell) is not a Deutsche Mark note.The DM was only issued by the Bundesbank after WW2. The picture shows German money from WW2, ie. Reichsmark. Lschulz 12:17, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I cut the following bit from the spelling note:

"because in German you cannot put an adjective and a noun together"

That's nonsense. Just think about words like "Grünspan" (verdigris). Grün is an adjective (green) and Span is a noun (chip/swarf/splinter). -- Ashmodai 17:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Mark or mark? 2 Survey 2.1 Support 2.2 Oppose 2.3 Abstain 3 conversion rate to reichsmark 4 Does anyone know? 5 Pfennig markings 6 Euro changeover 7 Sorry, but again - Proposed move to "German Mark" (with capitalizaton)

[edit] Mark or mark?

Is the name properly capitalized as "Deutsche Mark" or can this article be moved to the currency-name standard of "Deutsche mark"?

AlbertR 19:36, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Either "Deutsche Mark" (correct in German) or "German mark" (correct in English). Definitely not "Deutsche mark". ナイトスタリオン…ㇳ–ㇰ 20:53, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Ahhh, now I see. For the record, I prefer "German mark". AlbertR 21:02, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Since this is the English wikipedia, so do I. (Notwithstanding my native language. ;)) ナイトスタリオン…ㇳ–ㇰ 21:48, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

I always thought currencies were generally capitalized as proper names, but a quick look through our various currency articles seems to indicate I've been wrong all my life :P . Anyway, I agree it should be either Deutsche Mark or German mark, although I have no special preference for any of the two versions -- Ferkelparade π 13:32, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

It ought to be added that, descriptively, deutschmark (no space, lower case) was in common use in the news media as the English-language term for the currency: see [1]. This appalled some Germans and was deprecated by a few prescriptive English reference works. While it may have been "cod German" by origin, it evolved into a phenomenon of educated English usage. 80.171.183.49 13:03, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Deutschmark was in common usage amongst English speaking people (or UK residents at least), but it is pretty incorrect. I think a redirect would be valid, but it's not an official name for the currency in any way. It did appear in Monty Python's money song tho ("the deutschmark's getting dearer" or something along those lines). Ashmodai 12:22, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

As I know, Deutschmark was known and used in the US long before Monty Python's. It came up by the time of change from Reichsmark to Deutsche Mark. I will look for more details. --Grabert 02:50, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

What about Rentenmark and Reichmark? How should we write them?

• Rentenmark
• rentenmark
• pension mark
• something else?

The spelling is getting out of control. Let's have a consistent style, and I will volunteer to clean up. --Chochopk 05:32, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I say "rentenmark", unless "pension mark" was in use in English. —Nightstallion (?) 10:32, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Not as standard usage, which is "rentenmark"

I'm proposing changing all mark to Mark. More detail on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics#German unit --Chochopk 22:59, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

If nobody responds, I will just do it. --Chochopk 12:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Afaik, "pension mark" is wrong as in "rentenmark" the word "Rente" does not refer to "pension". Otherwise you (all you English-speaking people) should stick to your rules ("Deutsche mark", that is) as we Germans capitalize your pounds and dollars according to our rules aswell. --A native German

Next thing coming to my mind: What about the plural? Is it "Deutsche marks" or "Deutsche mark"? (In German, the latter one is correct - there is no plural form) --see above

Mark, of course. —Nightstallion (?) 11:19, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

[edit] conversion rate to reichsmark

I challenge the conversion ration to reichsmark written in the article (100 Reichsmark = 4.75 Deutsche Mark), germannotes.com, which looks like a well done website states "Each person received 40 Deutsche Mark and was able to exchange Reichsmark for Deutsche Mark at a fixed rate of 10 to 1". And an article by Global Financial Data says "The western Allies introduced the Deutsche Mark (DEM) on June 20, 1948, allowing conversion at 1 Deutsche Mark equal to 10 Reichsmark, though with limits on the rights of conversion. The black market rate was around 1000 Reichsmark to the Deutschemark." And Global Financial Data currency histories table listed it as "1 DEM = 10 DER", although I personally question the accuracy of Global Financial Data as well. --Chochopk 06:39, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Bond Conversion of 600RM to 50 DM] German information on the conversion The 60 DM was the maximum limit at a conversion rate of 1RM = 1DM. The exchange seems very complex, and depended on who was exchanging the money.In english Ok u are right, so please change it la. Enlil Ninlil 09:18, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Does anyone know?

You may have seen those sales pitches, selling the new Iraqi Dinar notes. Many of these promotions claim that speculators were able to buy up severely devalued Deutschmarks (and Yen) right after WW2, subsequently earning sizable profits as the defeated Axis powers stabilized and their currencies appreciated. Is this true or false? Rearden Metal 07:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

This is certainly false - there was no Deutschmark right after WW2. The currency of Germany was the Reichsmark through WW2 and until 1948. Buying up Reichsmark would have been of no use since it indeed was worthless after WW2, but it never recovered. Instead it was abandoned and the new Deutsche Mark was issued in 1948, but there was no free market to exchange it into Deutsche Mark at any profitable rate. Every citizen could exchange a small amount of Reichsmark at a good rate (to get them through the time until their next payday arrived), but the remaining amount of Reichsmark was practically worthless. Anything else would have dragged the new D-Mark down into hyperinflation instantly, ridiculing the whole exercise. So, to conclude, no, as as far as the Deutsche Mark is concerned, this is almost certainly a fraudulent claim. I don't know about the Yen, but frankly, I wouldn't expect any more truth to those claims concerning post-WW2 yen. 84.148.115.173 02:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pfennig markings

The Pfennig coins bear a letter between the oak sprigs on the reverse side. Does anyone know what these letters represent. I have identified "D", "F", and "G" so far. 168.103.228.69 19:01, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

These letters indicate where the coin was minted - according to this, D indicates Munich, F Stuttgart, G Karlsruhe and J Hamburg. The letters were present on all German coins from the pre-Euro period, not just on the Pfennings (and a quick glance in my wallet confirms that the same letters still appear on German Euro coins, presumably indicating the same mints) -- Ferkelparade π 21:44, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

A is for Berlin, B for Vienna during WW2 and M for another place, but I forget where is eastern germany. Enlil Ninlil 02:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I have a Großchen (10 Pfennig) from 1875 and it has two small "H"s under both claws of the Prussian Eagle, what mint is that? If I can get a picture on my computer I will post it. I have the picture posted below with the "H"s highlighted where they are on the coin --JonnyLightning 22:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Image:Großchen.jpg

[edit] Euro changeover

One sentence in the beginning of the text states:

"The Deutsche Mark ceased to be legal tender immediately upon the introduction of the euro — in contrast to the other eurozone nations, where the euro and legacy currency circulated side by side for up to two months."

OK, so all DEM banknotes and coins became invalid on 1999-01-01.

However, the next sentence states:

"However, DM coins and banknotes continued to be accepted as valid forms of payment in Germany up until 28 February 2002."

OK, so all DEM banknotes and coins became invalid on 2002-02-28.

Can anyone check the correctness of these statements? It would be impossible to use the euro banknotes and coins already in 1999 (because they weren't printed or minted at that time), so I suppose it's the second one that's correct? (58.188.97.134 14:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC))

Well, in my understanding neither of these statements are completely correct. On 01-Jan-2002 the euro banknotes and coins were introduced. Until 28-Feb-2002 both the old German Mark banknotes and coins, as well the new euro ones, were legal tender. All goods could be bought by any combination of currencies, and the seller was obliged to accept both currencies during these two months. After 28-Feb-2002 the German Mark did not exactly became invalid, but ceased to be legal tender. The Bundesbank will exchange old German Mark denominations (banknotes and coins) into euros for indefinite future, so the German Mark banknotes and coins are not invalid. However, the acceptance of German Marks is up to the seller's decision. If he's willing to accept the burden of exchanging at the Bundesbank, customers might be able to buy something for old German Marks even now. In fact, several companies did some marketing actions ("we still accept your old German marks"), to benefit from people still in procession of German Marks. I do understand, that there are still billions (!) of German Marks out in the world, that haven't been exchanged as of now, 5 years after to introduction of euro banknotes and coins. - So, just my two cents. Cheers, MikeZ 19:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Sorry, but again - Proposed move to "German Mark" (with capitalizaton)

Sorry, I just came aware of the survey conducted in August 2006, about this very some proposal. As I do have one new, but I really think quite significant argument, I'm going forward to propose the move to "German Mark" again.

The point is, that I did come across quite a lot of different articles in English Wikipedia that apply the same capitalization to other topics as well. Most prominent examples that I'm aware of are "British Empire" and "United States", and none would say this has anything to do with German spelling :-). So in fact, the capitalization should be applied, because it can be correct in English, it definitely is correct in German, and we should apply the same capitalization rule to all articles consistently. Additionally, the title should match the predominant usage within the article.

So, I'm ready for your arguments. Cheers, MikeZ 12:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)