Talk:Ghetto
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'hiBold text'I am not really sure about when the ghetto gates were closed from the inside or the outside. -- Davidme
- This help?
- Gates were to be erected in two places, and locked at sunset (not midnight as sometimes erroneously asserted) and only opened again at sunrise, with a substantial fine levied against any Jew caught outside after hours. The Christian inhabitants of the ghetto were required to vacate their premises, and as an incentive for landlords to comply, the Jews were required to pay them a rent one-third higher than that previously paid, with that increase exempt from taxation. [| University of Maryland]. DavidP 12:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't see the relationshi from iron foundry to ghetto. I thought that the etimology was from (bor)ghetto (small city-quarter). -- Davidme
- who ever said Iron? foundries are needed for bronze, brass and almost all metals - Ghetto as a word meaning 'cast' or extruded still survives in the word Spaghetti a form of pasta that is made in a way similar to the extrusion of metal. DavidP 12:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Etymology of "Ghetto"
The claim that the word "ghetto" comes from the Italian "getto, gettare" is erroneous. The term does originate in Venice, and is related to the operations of a foundry on the island, but derives instead from a noun and adjective "ghetta", meaning slags, itself from the Latin adjective glittus (sticky, soft). The term refers to the part of the island (campo ghetto < CAMPU[M] GLC;TTU[M]) where the slags were cooled. Had the term been related to the Italian "gettare" (VL *JECTARE = CL JACTARE, cfr. E-JECTARE), then we would expect the Venetian to be "zeto" (IPA: [zeto]). The term was later interpreted as being related to the Hebrew word for the bill of divorce, "get" (גט), but this is a later bilingual paronomasia on the Venetian word. In Venetian, "gheto" (IPA: [geto]); Italian "ghetto (IPA: [getːo]); Latinized form (in Papal documents regarding the "serraglio delli hebrei" in Rome, first in 1555 in an edict of Pius IV, and again in 1562 when the name of the "serraglio" was officially changed) "ghectus".
See:
Ariel Toaff, "Getto - Ghetto," The American Sephardi 6:1/2 (1973): 71-77.
Sandra Debenedetti-Stow, The etymology of “ghetto”: new evidence from Rome, Jewish History, Volume 6, Issue 1 - 2, Mar 1992, Pages 79 - 85, DOI 10.1007/BF01695211, URL http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/BF01695211.
--Jerchower 17:42, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Someone inserted the following into my talk. The comment is NOT mine, and the information in it is utterly spurious. Jerchower 12:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC):
"as i understand the ghetto is acording to jewish law where jew should live and want to live, they live in ghettos as the did since the begining of talmudic law and perhaps before. jews are following talmudic law when they live in ghettos. in bablon they lived in ghettos out of personal choice and safty and not due to being forced by non-jewish peoples. anyone knowlable in talmudic law can prove this and cite sources. "
- This etymology is the original work of one linguist 'Sandra Debenedetti-Stow'. it is based on a fragment found in rome that purports to represent the inhabitants ideas of how the name arose, long after it did. Debenedetti-Snow's journal has been called 'creative' and her assertions are not at all mainstream. It is far more likely that the etymology represented on this page is erroneous.
- 'The word ghetto is of Venetian rather than of Jewish origin, as has sometimes been conjectured. It is encountered in Venetian sources from the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, and today it is generally presumed that the word derives from the Italian verb gettare (to pour or to cast), because of the previous presence of foundries in the area.' [| from Benjamin C.I. Ravid, "From Geographical Realia to Historiographical Symbol: The Odyssey of the Word Ghetto"].
- Personally I think that 'slag' is an unlikely source of the word, mainly because prior to the industrialisation of smelting the quantities of slag, produced as a by-product of smelting, would be too small to require two whole blocks of land specifically for cooling it (there were two ghettos; the ghetto nuovo and the ghetto vecchio), especially when you are surrounded by water (why not just pour it into the water) in a reclaimed island in lagoon where all land is precious. Further more it is highly unlikely that Venice would be smelting ore at all, it would make no sense using the city to produce raw materials when you have an empire to do that for you. the foundries or ghettos in Venice would be for casting, probably bronze, a process that produces very little slag indeed.
- For a more informative view that would be worth reading for many aspects of this article (and one you can read without buying the journal) take a look at [| The University of Maryland article based primarily on B. Ravid, "The Religious, Economic and Social Background and Context of the Establishment of the Ghetti of Venice," in Gli Ebrei e Venezia, ed. G. Cozzi (Venice, 1987), 211-59] DavidP 12:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
"In somewhat more recent times, ghettos appeared primarily in the Western part of Tsarist Russia, in the so called Pale of Jewish settlement. Since Jews couldn't acquire land outside the ghetto, during periods of population growth, ghettos had narrow streets and tall, crowded houses. Residents had their own justice system. Around the ghetto stood walls that during pogroms were closed from the inside during Easter Week and from the outside during Christmas or Pesach. Often ghetto residents had to have a pass to go outside of the bounds of the ghetto."
For me it is complete nonsense. Closed from outside Ghettos never existed in Eastern Europe befiore Nazis.
[edit] Figurative use
Ghetto is also used figuratively, and for areas that are anything but poverty struck (cf usage in Speculative fiction, Gay ghetto). Any reason not to indicate this in the first paragraph?
E.g. The term ghetto is also used in a more figurative way to indicate areas and ideas that are excluded from the mainstream, such as Gay ghetto, or Sci-fi ghetto (see speculative fiction). If this seems to be denigrating the real ghettos, could add: Such usage may actually make some people more comfortable with the word, by distancing it from real, current, deprivation. Notinasnaid 09:12, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The ghetto is most commonly knon as a lower class area of a rural city
I live in da ghetto and it ain't dat bad.just a few gangs and slang.but look,if you got to my userpage and read it you see i'm still smart.I'm just say in...--Cute 1 4 u 20:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Faulty reasoning, needs clarification
Because African-Americans of all economic levels had to live in these neighborhoods, such as Bronzeville in Chicago and Harlem in New York City, they often became known as vibrant cultural centers
the article needs clarification to indicate that black ghettos, became vibrant cultural centers because great artists lived there ( Nina Simone <3, John Lee Hooker -- boom, boom, boom --, Proffesor Longhair -- gumbo anyone? -- three artists that come most easily in mind) and not because a bunch of black people where stuck living there... Come on, it's like saying "Ghettos produce artists". Not NPOV. The article needs to reflect on the dates that this cultural flurishment happened.
[TODO] 'pedia "Harlem", "Detroit", "New Orleans", check out the dates where their ghettos flurished and then set this article straight. (did/does the 'awleans have a ghetto? - i'm putting it on the list cuz some of my most favorite jazz artists come from there.) Project2501a 11:17, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- It's often said that great art is born out of suffering. So it isn't necessarily a coincidence that great artists live in the ghetto. Perhaps "ghettos produce artists" in the same way that other crowded, poverty stricken, areas have done (e.g. late 19th century Paris). (No I haven't read the original statements). Low property prices and tolerant neighbours can also influence whether people are able to gather in "cultural centres". Notinasnaid 12:01, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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- point taken, but still, that doesn't negate the "minstrel" implication or the "go to the nigger hood, cuz they's gonna entaintain you" feeling of the wording. So, I changed the wording. let me know if you agree. thanks :) Project2501a 15:04, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
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- I added a whole section noting that african-american ghettos were often vibrant cultural centers Project2501a 15:28, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Faulty reasoning (2): out-of-bedlock
- Its opponents point out that in the 1970s, when the real amounts of welfare checks decreased, out-of-wedlock births increased. Murray also missed the fact that although the percentage of blacks born out of wedlock increased in the 60s and 70s, the percentage of black women having babies out of wedlock decreased.
- On the contrary, these facts actually support the theory.
- since the welfare checks decreased, more babies were to be born to get the same money.
- percentage: Again the same. This shows that while less new women were encouraged to be indecent, those who already abused the system were encouraged (or forced) to abuse it even more (I vouch for "forced", since already having children decreased odds to find a job). Mikkalai 00:08, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
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- This is a very interesting perspective. The line of argument I used to criticize Murray came from the books "The Truly Disadvantaged" and "The Promised Land." I will move the reasoning that you consider faulty to the section on William Julius Wilson, as well as add the fact that the illegitimacy rate increased in low benefit states like Mississippi just as much as it did in high benefit states like Ill and NY.
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- Personally, I think that Waldinger's theory deserves to be better known. In "The Promised Land" Nicholas Lemann points out that both Murray and Wilson have one thing in common in that neither "blames the victim." user:dinopup
[edit] "something blacks have not been able to do"
(concerning [this reversion http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ghetto&diff=19466622&oldid=19462838]): Waldinger argues that immigrant groups benefit by establishing nepotistic niches for themselves, and use niches for mutual help, something blacks have not been able to do.
Whether or not each of us believes that blacks are "able" or "unable" or "willing" or "unwilling" to create and use niches, the point here is that Waldinger asserts they are unable to do so. The article isn't saying one way or another, it's just reporting what Waldinger said. FreplySpang (talk) 21:43, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
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- Is that a quote by Waldinger? If so, it should be in quotations, if not, the editor is simply projecting their beliefs onto a descriription of Waldinger's work. Show where Waldinger specifically said "not been able." "Not been able" is a racist statement. Furthermore, the following line in the paragraph: " In contrast, unskilled northern-born blacks, who hope to do something better than their parents, disdain these jobs, in hope of something better, and may often wind up working outside the legitimate economy altogether." further point out my opinion that this is a willing choice, not something which they are "unable" to do. I believe that the quote above shows that Waldinger means unwilling.
- I read Waldinger before I knew of wikipedia, or else I would have used a direct quotation from him. I do recall that Waldinger writes more than one chapter about economic niching of Koreans, Indians, Jews, etc. as a contrast to African-Americans. Waldinger writes about how blacks used to be prominent in the catering business, so I think that the wikipedia article correctly summarizes Waldinger's theory. Dinopup 01:37, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how it could be interpreted as some sort of racialist "fundamentally unable" statement. In context, the phrase "have not be able to do" means something like "have not managed to do", as in "I would like to visit China someday, but so far I have been unable to do so" (which does not imply that I am fundamentally incapable of visiting China). --Delirium 12:42, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
- I read Waldinger before I knew of wikipedia, or else I would have used a direct quotation from him. I do recall that Waldinger writes more than one chapter about economic niching of Koreans, Indians, Jews, etc. as a contrast to African-Americans. Waldinger writes about how blacks used to be prominent in the catering business, so I think that the wikipedia article correctly summarizes Waldinger's theory. Dinopup 01:37, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
- Is that a quote by Waldinger? If so, it should be in quotations, if not, the editor is simply projecting their beliefs onto a descriription of Waldinger's work. Show where Waldinger specifically said "not been able." "Not been able" is a racist statement. Furthermore, the following line in the paragraph: " In contrast, unskilled northern-born blacks, who hope to do something better than their parents, disdain these jobs, in hope of something better, and may often wind up working outside the legitimate economy altogether." further point out my opinion that this is a willing choice, not something which they are "unable" to do. I believe that the quote above shows that Waldinger means unwilling.
[edit] Unsubstantiated claim?
The below paragraph has five claims that should be backed up by statistics:
- "Losing Ground has met with a broad chorus of liberal criticism. Losing Ground's opponents point out that [1] in the 1970s, when the real amounts of welfare checks decreased, out-of-wedlock births increased. Critics also point out that [2] illegitimacy rose just as much in low benefit states like Mississippi, where [3] work undoubtedly paid better than welfare, as [4] it did in high benefit states like Illinois and New York. Critics also say that Murry missed the fact that although the [5] percentage of blacks born out of wedlock increased in the 60s and 70s, the percentage of black women having babies out of wedlock decreased.
The claims should be footnoted or this paragraph should be removed or altered to clarify it is merely a POV and not fact.--CrazyTalk 18:33, August 13, 2005 (UTC)
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- The information came from The Promised Land by N. Lemann. I'll get a citation up within a few hours. Dinopup 19:32, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Piotrkow was the first ghetto
It was organised in October 1939, according to deathcamps.org/occupation/piotrkow%20ghetto.html
Xx236 14:02, 10 February 2006 (UTC) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Above information on first ghetto incorrect.
[edit] First Ghetto
The first ghetto
The Hebrews first came to Egypt to escape a famine. According to the Torah, they were harbored by Joseph, who became Prime Minister to Pharaoh because of his interpretation of dreams.
They were granted their own state in the fat land of Goshen, north of Thebes.
Later, their fortunes fell with the overthrow of the Hyksos kings around the 14th century BCE. Goshen became a ghetto ... the world's first. The Hebrews slowly descended into slavery, as "there arose a Pharaoh who knew not Joseph."
[edit] Alot of Graffiti
Something about west London appears to be on this page alot, is there wa way to revert it back to a saved version without all the graffiti?
The First Ghetto was created by God for God, because he uses all things to work together for the Good of those who are the called, according to His purposes and plans. He alone has mastered the plans to use that which seems to be negative or unusable for His own Glory, and any one who is capable of doing that first learned it because He manifested it in this world! He even uses satan to help His own children to obey Him. He excels the very elite, fasinating those who know Him, and love Him, indeed His great wisdom can never be found out by mere men He has to reveal it to them. To understand the betrayal of mankind towards itself, is to understand why The King of Kings would preserve His greatest treasures in a place where he could prove himself to them. The first shall be last, but the last shall become the first! God allows the poor to find Him to be true to His written word the bible! These very peasants bye the standards of this world, will confound the wise, yes the wise are already confused by them, because most poor people pray to the God who has sustained them, time and time again...this is why we can never be inihalated and never will be because we pray, we fear God..to a certain degree, and as the heat gets hotter in the furnace we are becoming more and more learned, and refined by our faith to keep overcoming. That is not to say, our disobedience does not cost some of us, it may cost lives. But there is only one way to be rich, happy and full of joy in this world from a pure heart, and that is to get your wealth from God himself, for His purposes alone, that also includes you and your loved ones. The enlightened ones who work for satan, / the anti' christ, have so called mastered how to secretly help a people who have the name of their God in their hearts, to inihalate themselves by their own hands. Their own lust,pride and the lust of their eyes. " We've been tricked in our thinking that we had to have things...to be important" the truth is people who have things, are not important, except in their own minds really, no one really cares that you may have bought a phantom...or a boat, but the people who try to impress, and that is all apart of what satan does, is to get your mind off your time, to manifest love and concern for mankind world wide. They have sought to overpower poor communites through media and subliminal influences, through idol living and seductive prosperity messages on quick fixes, realistate investments, when God has given us the land, why buy it? such as rap hip hop, sealing drugs, prostitution, stripping ect...They have influence us to think and believe things made up and contrary to the word of God, but If God is King and soon to return, and I believe He is...It will never work to the desired inihalation, and the reason is the greed of those who exploit us, if you have no people to exploit, how will you stay rich? You see I am an ex- prostitute of 19 years, I have seen my God bring me out when I did not deserve it, though a 19 year period of professing to be a christain but having no real life changing realitionship with God, but now I have crossed over to the obedience of my God, "not my will but his be done" I am already dead in Christ, so the temptations of this world have no control over me, the lust of the flesh the lust of the eyes, nor the pride of this life....which is fading away, and the pleasures thereof. But on the other hand, I am blessed to be not cursed with riches which makes one vain,...and to have learned to pray, to be greatful, yes thankful for every little crumb I am able to give or eat...my life is but a vapor...I've seen so much death here, that I could never think my life to be in my own hands, or any ones for that matter. My life is not my own, I don't own it ..or I would preserve it for ever!
All God needs is a remnant of chosen people, of which I AM, to build His Kingdom far beyond the walls of the ghetto that trained us! God is the great munipulator, and it is He who wills in every one to do His good pleasure. Might I add, a Great King such as Jehovah claims to be, in His wisdom, knows how to hide His most faluable treasures in the earth, this is why so much talent comes from suffering, but it was all in the plan. He knew that Hollywood would exploit His treasures, and cause them to use their gifts to curse their land, it would masterfully further their plans of wickedness, but I delcare to you that Hollywood in itself is being taken for the Kingdom of God, His children are not their for nothing, and every time we have a world wide tragedy the world will see them manifest, taking the land that the soles of their feet stand upon. Having said that, I should say that just because people have found the treasures in the ghetto does not mean it was lost, or that it is theirs!
Last thing, it is the 4th of July, and in the ghetto,most people here don't get the entire celebration, we have been conditioned to believe it is all about fireworks, but what kills me is the media always comes over here and asked african american kids, what does the 4th of July mean, and most times the kids will not know the answer to the question, or if they do, it is with out any conviction. It should be illigal to have fireworks in communites except for designated areas, where their is a huge show! We leave the community every year, becaus ewe cannot breath...we cannot see the cars coming down the streets, and no one seems to think that that is child abuse induce by the government, or those who exploit by selling the fireworks to peopel who don't really acknowledge the fact that lives were taken to set them free. This is adding to the gang activity in our community...peopel actually trained bitbulls to become more violent by eating gun powerder, how much of it is really effecting us over here, I also noticed that upper class communites don't have as much smoke inthewre communites by the firworks, because they usually got to a place where they can't inhale it, or the little children. Read " More on the Ghetto factor @ www.theghettofactor.blogspot.com www.anuemi.com
But the God who hid it there allowed it to be found for a set time, to reveal His glory in the end! Please excuse any typeooooz...
Anuemi Taylor
What the hell is this? Relevance?
[edit] Slums for Jews
The article blithely exclaims that the Irish were the first so-called "ethnic group" to form ghettoes in the United States of America, but that statement is a falsehood. Jews preceded Irishmen by many decades. Jews moved into older parts of cities, replacing the earlier (English) settlers. Boston, Massachusetts, New York, New York, and other cities were places where Jews established the earliest ghettoes in North America. 71.240.82.223 04:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "neutrality of this article is disputed" total BS
When a moderator places this stamp on an article, what purpose does it serve? The blacks in the US section should be removed completely and locked from the user(s) that added it. When newbies visit Wikipedia, they still read these biased articles and believe all its contents despite that dumb "neutrality of this article...". Find other methods to keep Wikipedia neither left or right. Panda
- The NPOV tag is placed to call attention to the presence of bias presenting itself as fact. To me, it's a heads-up that I should be skeptical. I can't speak for others, but it does work, at least for me. The specific tag in question was placed incorrectly (in the middle of an article, in the middle of a sentence even), but I've fixed that.
There needs to be some explanation as to why it was placed there, however. I agree that a NPOV tag placed without an explanation on the talk page is practically useless.(missed explanation above) Regardless, the best method "to keep Wikipedia neither left or right" is to be bold and make the changes needed, making sure to explain why. -kotra 02:22, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm assuming, although it's not altogether clear to me, that you are angry about the use of the term 'black' when referring to "African Americans". If that is the case, I would like to point out several things. First, I have yet to meet a case of some "black" person being offended by being called "black". Also, that the use of the term 'African American' is highly deceiving because most of the people referred to as "African Americans" are as "African" in their idiology, society, history and even (in many cases) ethnicity as they are "Asian". The majority "African American" communities were imported to the southern states as slaves and have been in America and have been integrating into American culture since then (approximately a hundred-fifty years). They no longer have any traces of African religion, custom, culture, ideology or behavior, in fact, I have been told that many naturalized "African Americans" positively dislike freshly immigrated Africans. Besides this, the "African Americans" were imported from vastly different tribal and geographic backgrounds thus making them form an entirely new culture all their own. For all these reasons they nor many of 'us' think of them as being African at all. The fact is, their only major distinguishing characteristic is that they are 'black', this is what they call themselves and what they are called by those who realize that it not only does not offend them, but is etymologically more accurate. Therefore, I think it is permissable and would be more accurate to replace all occurences of "African American" with "black". (Sir Tristram 22:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC))
[edit] Category:Ghettos
I am suprised such a category does not exist yet?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 18:44, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] ghettos survive by liberalism, not racism
im sure racism caused ghettos to form in america. today, racism we know it has declined when colleges have lowered entrance exam standards for black students and job hiring practices made it easy for blacks to get work. then most white peeple i observe dont like to say 'ghetto' or dont wanna talk bout issues like this, cuz the p-c agenda will call them racists or bigots. im one of the 'evil conservative' types, but i always not care much on what race or color a person is. ghettos survive today by race baitin politics, the rap hip hop culture glamorizes failure & poverty, when these rap singers in contracts made 'bling bling' leave the ghetto. what kind of world we have any one can sing poorly & write songs full of cursing, drug use & objectifies women? it promotes a negative sense of self & young black kids listen to it thinking they are low lifes? im offended, are you? ghettos are here not by legal restricted home tracts, its been illegal to segregate homes since the 1960s. ghettos are where welfare dependents are addicted to small cash pay ments, goes up when a single mother has another baby. im sure it teach them to go get pregnant & dont go to school/find a job that has more benefits for her & the children. im amazed teens from ghettos are poorly brought up. i own a business that i look for new hires & i wish to give them a chance in life. but they dress in gang attire & speak bad english. they cant conduct themselves properly in interviews. in most cases they arent interested in work. i worry the country's public schools are so bad (thanx to liberal mismanagement & 'new math', 'ebonics courses' or 'revised history') they dont graduate or their diplomas are cheapened after promoted to a new grade while they failed. we've as a country lowered standards to create a underclass, plus the hip-hop culture tells em 'blacks dont go to college' or what their peers tell em. it makes me mad, but im not black and not poor, but a working white man 45 years old, who knew blacks in my school i got along with and back then, poor blacks or whites or whoever wanted to graduated & get a great job. what happened? liberalism & moral decline, get welfare & you be treated/cared of alright. no more welfare states. no more race politics. and encourage young people in economic challenged homes to study, work hard, plan for goals, integrate well & not beg for others. dont use race or class to determine their lifes are bad over the distant past. but tell them the future is great & our country has a better economy than ever. i believe all races of americans (i call them american first) have the same dreams & abilities, no need to use race or color to label or divide for political purposes, any liberals know of this work well? cities fail from bad city politics, economic restrictions (costs), mismanagement of communities, & high tax rates to pay for social welfare states. i dont pay for failure to breed or grow ghettos, i pay for growth & wana teach the future not get stuck on this p-c lib hip-hop black power baloney. - signed, open-minded conservative. whites live in ghettos too. and hiphop dosent glamorize poverty. where did u get that. they glamorize what happen after the got out of the poverty but never the poverty.
I am very much in agreement with the author above, I just want to add this thought: This nation has had a long history of the desperate poor entering.They've all met bigotry and got by.Unless we believe blacks and hispanics to be inferior to the earlier arrivals, the only differance I can see is the new Deal.Traditionaly, employers, when deciding on a location wrestle between the the advantages of the poor area, low wages and those of a beter assimulated area, lower crime and end up going with the poorer area. What we've done, by federal labor law, is abolish incentive to locate in the ghettos becouse operation costs will be the same everywhere, and by judicial activism, aplified the dicincentive, the high-crime area is always the worst hit by criminal rights. More directly, anti-discrimination laws hurt only those bussinesses who opperate in minority areas. One never hires someone who's harder to fire.
[edit] Ghetto music
I removed this sentence, which had its own section created called "Trivia".
"- Ghetto-themed songs have been created by several singers, such as Busta Rhymes, and Alicia Keys."
Is there another place we could put this? Thor Rudebeck 07:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Which ghetto??
The sentence
- From its creation in 1462, until its dissolution at the end of the 18th century, the city council limited expansion in the Judengasse, resulting in steadily increasing overcrowding.
at the beginning of the section 13th–19th centuries makes no sense to me. Which ghetto was created in 1462, and which city limited its expansion?? - Austrian 23:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Quick Question?
is there anything mentioned about the use of the word "ghetto" and how it is applied in todays terms? just wonderin. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.108.158.12 (talk) 21:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC).
