Talk:Giovanni da Verrazzano

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Contents 1 Corrections 2 New Dalmatia 3 The story of Giovanni Da Verrazano 4 Giovanni da VerrazZano 5 Some PC changes 6 Name? 7 Requested move 8 Hey I need help 9 Florentine or Italian 10 Straw poll: Florence or not in lead section?

[edit] Corrections

The Giovanni Da Verrazano teller I've changed Verrazano Narrows to the more correct Narrows which is the historical name for the strait between Long Island and Staten Island. Although "Verrrazano Narrows" has gained coinage in recent years to refer to strait, it is, as far I can tell a result of confusion based on the name of the bridge, which was named Verrazano Narrows Bridge because it spanned the Narrows and also commerorated Giovanni da Verrazano, not because it because spanned a (non-existant) strait called the "Verrazano Narrows." Decumanus 08:29, 17 Jan 2004 "...Verrazano made 3 more voyages...on the second... he was killed." Someone who knows what they are talking about should fix this. david 25 Jan 2004

It's being done. This article does not do justice to Verrazzano and I've been collecting material for a much better and thorough article. I've been reading through the logs of his voyage in order to write a nice summary of what actually happened. As for his death, the best sources I can find say he was hanged by the Spanish (since he spent much of his career preying on their ships).Jan 26,2004

the personal life of Giovanni De Verrazano that you can help me study. Other than that I understand every thing that you have given me. Thanks for all your help on my project, and your time, but if you could really help me please type back.

[edit] New Dalmatia

The New England Coast was first called New Dalmatia by Verrazano in 1524. This is well documented on maps by other explorers. The fact that he called the land New Dalmatia could well mean that he has some link to Dalmatia in Croatia. He could be of Croatian Dalmatian origin or just simply spend some time there. Dalmatia Croatia was under Venice rule and the Croat citizens were called Venetian. It was common for all Croatians living under Venice (including Marco Polo) to translate the Slav last name into Italian. {unsigned}

[edit] The story of Giovanni Da Verrazano

He was born in Tuscany,Italy in the year 1485. He went to France many times in the age 15-20 and so on. He was ordered by the king of France Francis 1. {unsigned}

[edit] Giovanni da VerrazZano

It seems that Encyclopedia Britannica (ed. 1993) gives the spelling Giovanni da Verrazzano (which, by the way, is also the CORRECT Italian form). I was thinking to move this page to the correct spelling one. Let me know opinions at my talk. --Attilios 09:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

As I pointed out, people on Staten Island, where there is a ferry, a bridge, a Little League, and numerous businesses, etc. named for him spell it both ways, confusingly. If you pick one, you really need to have a link to it from the other.HarvardOxon 22:47, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some PC changes

This is not my area of expertise so I dont want to change any of the factual content. But May I submit that unless the naming ceremony is conducted in Christian ceremony it is not 'Christened'. While most of us knows what that means it is not correct and can incorrectly indicate a bias towards a Christian interpretation of history. I made the change already and I hope you agree. --Robotics1 17:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

On planet earth, the ceremony whereby a ship is named is called "christening," as was used in the article -- with ancient analogy to Christian Baptism but having lost absolutely all religious connotation. Here, we don't baptize bridges, but we do have an colloquialism that uses "christening" as "naming" -- it occurs in a variety of contexts and in secular newspapers and television broadcasts about inanimate objhects and ideas every day. How do they do things on your planet?HarvardOxon 18:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so. It might be true for ships in Christian nations on planet Earth. Not a ship lauched in Japan or Israel or Soudi Arabia and so on. Therefore the term is a Christian one whereas I feel Wikipedia should be worldwide - international and non religeous. --Robotics1 22:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The word 'christen' has very little to do with actual Christian ceremonies, and comes from the Old English word meaning to make Christian. Since about 1450 it has meaned 'to name' and brings no religious connotation with it. Besides this is the English Wikipedia and this term is often used in English. T REX_speak 19:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name?

I know the article states that Verrazano can be wrote several differant ways, but the title and the article are not consistant? Could someone correct this?

I added the Globalize/USA markup because the Verrazano spelling is clearly a bias from US users, which are used to it. However, the correct spelling is Verrazzano. Check, for example, Encyclopedia Britannica entry... and I seem that this is still the most respectble source in US, I hope you agree. --Attilios 23:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's normal for there to be multiple spelling variations, in particular for Spanish people for some reason. It's discussed in a footnote. The name of the article is the most commonly used/known in English. Article titles are placeholders, symbolisms that represent whats in an article, they are not statements of fact. If you want to rename the article follow the renaming procedures (it's controversial so you'll need to get consensus first). Or, use the footnote to explain the spelling variations. --- Stbalbach 04:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Please, Verrazzano was Italian, not Spanish. I can't explain how easily American people confound Italians with Spanish, especially with language (would you be pleased if I'd confound you with a Norwegian only 'cause your language are somewhat similar?). Moreover, the note was clearly misleading: as the spelling confirmed by ALL serious sources (even English ones) is Verrazzano, to write "sometimes" is rather reductive, isn't it? Anyway, this encyclopedia is written in English, and that's true. However, it is not the Encyclopedia of the English motherlanguage people. And I seem that Verrazano is the spelling of US people mainly, so you should try to put here the most internationally recognized form of the name, even though the article is written in English. A question: what if I started a poll to redime the matter? Bye and good work. --Attilios 12:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry your right he's Italian, I've been dealing with a lot of 15-16th C exploration stuff lately, and have not studied Giovanni closely yet, so made a thoughtless assumption (at this point, if someone mistook me as Canadian, I would be happy). Well, whatever the correct spelling, there is no doubt that many published sources use a single z. As for the "sometimes", that was not my wording, and it's good to have more clarity on the "correct" spelling, but it would be even better if we had a source to back it up, because what if someone disagreed in the future. I'm really not sure how widespread it is in the USA, or what the nature of the spelling variation is, perhaps bringing in other people to comment would help. -- Stbalbach 15:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd also like to be a Spanish... now, seen the quality of life and teh corruption in Italy today. --Attilios 16:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

(laugh) well problems all around. --Stbalbach 17:06, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

[edit] Hey I need help

I am doing a project on giovanni de Verrazzano and I was wondering if anyone who reads this could please add or post some more info on him to help me out. I have to right a 5 paragraph essay on him so please help me. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.165.92.58 (talk) 19:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Florentine or Italian

Regarding this sentence: Giovanni da Verrazzano was an Italian explorer versus this sentence: Giovanni da Verrazzano was a Florentine explorer

I don't agree [with Florentine]. Florence is today just a city. We should begin to write a Paduan, a Mantuan, a Cagliaritan etc. artist for each of the cities they come from? OK, Florence was once a country of its own, but this, at Verrazzano's times, was true for at lease 100 other Italian entities. I think you can find such a distinction between old Italian states only in old-fashioned encyclopedias like Britannica and Catholic. Bye. --Attilios 18:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

When writing history we use the historic name. Sometimes the modern name is used in parens, like (in modern Florence) -- this is standard throughout Wikipedia. -- Stbalbach 18:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand: what do you mean with "historical name"?!? We are speaking of countries, not names. And, in Wikipedia is standard to cite its current (equivalent, or cultural) nationality. So, you have a lot of people from former Germany which is cited as German painter, composer etc, not "Saxon painter" or "Prussian composer" etc. Bye. --Attilios 17:59, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, there is no absolutist Wikipedia rule, it is done different ways depending on the context and historical situation. In this case it is relevant and important, historically, to mention he was from Florence (and not, say, Genoa, another important place for Italian explorers). We speak of Constantinople and Istanbul depending on what time period it is, so yes we do use the historical names. Italian is ethnicity, there was no nation of Italy, Florentine is place of origin and more specific (there was no "nation" of Florence, it was akin to a commune). In any case since the compromise solution was reverted its going to have to be a straw poll as the next step. -- Stbalbach 19:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Straw poll: Florence or not in lead section?

This is a straw poll for input on the first sentence of the article. Should it be mentioned he was a Florentine, or Italian, or both?

• Florentine or Both. Some form of wording that said he was both an Italian and a Florentine, although it is somewhat redundant, so just saying he was Florentinian, as the article was originally[1], would be fine. Italian is ethnicity, and Florentine is place of origin (there was no nation of Italy at the time). It is relevant and important, historically, to mention he was from Florence and not, say, Genoa, another important place for Italian explorers and which was a competitor of Florence. -- Stbalbach 19:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
• Italian. da Verrazzano was in service of the French, so his achievements are not particularly related to Florence. Because of that, I think Attilios (talk • contribs)'s reasoning should be applied here. --User:Krator (t c) 13:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)