User talk:Gomm

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Contents 1 Child labor 2 Forestry articles 3 Napoleon's invasion of Russia 4 Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history 5 Welcome to the Military history WikiProject! 6 FRW & Napoleonic campaignboxes 7 Staarbucks entry 8 WP:MILHIST Coordinator Elections 9 RE: Napoleonics Updates 10 WikiProject Military History elections 11 Clearcutting 12 Seattle 13 French History 14 Battle of Leipzig 15 Battle of the Falklands 16 The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIII - March 2007

[edit] Child labor

Hi Gomm. I don't believe "Child labor or labour is when children are allowed to do economically productive work." is grammatically correct. Could you tell me what is subjective about the previous definition?--Bookandcoffee 00:27, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. I'll think about your note. In the mean time, what do you think about the new sentences that I put up. Do they do a better job?--Bookandcoffee 03:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Forestry articles

Hi, I see you have done a lot of good edits to forest and logging articles. I don't understand the distinction of all these forestry articles. For example Sustained Yield Forestry and Sustainable forest management. My view is that it is all forest management, with different goals. The forest can be managed for maximum wood production, max income or to produce nice hiking trails or good bird hunting. To a certain extent it is up to the owner. Does each goal have a differant name? It seem confusing to me. What is you view?KAM 16:12, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Cut and run. I wrote that but Is it a common term? I replaced it with the thing about developed vs developing. I don't think it is very good as is. Give it a shot. KAM 12:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with KAM, why are all of the forestry articles so disjointed? Is there a way to clean up this mess? It would be dandy if we could get all of this organized and cited, or maybe just coherent. I am a new editor, I don't know how to take this on, and I only practice in California and Nevada, so I have very limited knowledge of world forestry issues. SierraSkier 05:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Napoleon's invasion of Russia

I specifically object against the image: it is poor artistically, low resolution, and the caption is messy. The graph that you attempted to put into the lead previously is even worse, however. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 18:25, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history

Greetings fellow Military historian! I noticed your contributions to French Revolutionary Wars and Napoleonic Wars articles. You are, therefore, hereby, cordially invited to join us at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history. We are one of the largest and (IMHO) best project groups here. We not only have lively, thought provoking discussions, we get things done! And it is a good thing too, since there is a lot of work needed in this highly important and fascinating field of study. So look around and see what we have to offer, then if you like, simply add your name to our Members list and this tag:

to your userpage, then consider yourself one of us. Best regards, --Bryson 21:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome to the Military history WikiProject!

[edit] FRW & Napoleonic campaignboxes

So, looking at how messy the list of campaignboxes is becoming, I had an idea: what if we were to get rid of the First & Second Coalition campaignboxes entirely, in favor of splitting everything from 1792 to 1801 by theater (as you had proposed for the First Coalition)? We'd then wind up with something fairly straightforward:

• French Revolutionary Wars
  • Pyrenees
  • Italy
  • Egypt
  • Syria
  • Naval
  • ...
• Napoleonic Wars
  • Third Coalition
  • Fourth Coalition
  • ...

thus resolving the current bizarre situation of having multiple sets of overlapping campaignboxes for each war. Kirill Lokshin 03:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

What I would like to end up with is something like the nested campaignboxes in the Eastern Front in WW2, in which a neat hierarchical approach moves from the front, to the groups to the individual battles. I see no reason why this can't go: revolutionary wars -> coalitions -> front/campaign/war. The current mess you see is just my attempt to keep up with the mass of battles that get dumped into the COALITION boxes, with not clear structure (other than pure chronology). Along the way, we are going to need basic pages (like an overview of the Anglo-Spanish war, or rebellions against the revolution) which will serve as focal point for each campaignbox (like the eastern front structure). Do you think this is workable? Gomm 03:47, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, ok; that makes sense. I think this will be quite workable (but time-consuming to create, at first). Kirill Lokshin 03:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Good morning -- I'm not sure how this web-site works yet, but I just thought I'd comment that the description of the Battle of Rivoli does not bear too much relation to description given in the reference which is quoted as being its main source. I've taken the liberty of editing the articles on Lodi and Arcole, as they both seemed misleading to me, though the latter article is really much too brief to do justice to such a complex engagement. I hope this is acceptable. Some of the biographies I've looked at seem to be using rather doubtful sources, and could do with warnings. I've also taken the liberty of inserting a couple into the entries on Massena and Augereau. Best of luck. MBB.

[edit] Staarbucks entry

Your addition of scare quotes around "protection" (as in Trademark "protection") is extremely POV, and your characterization of their actions as "oppressing free speech" is contrary to the findings of the court. The court ruled in the case mentioned that the subject of the lawsuit was unjustly enriching himself through the misuse of Starbuck's trademarks, and while he was entitled to create parody items for artistic vaalue (free speech) he was not entitled to sell them (commercial use of someone else's trademarks), which was what starbucks sued about. Starbucks has not objected to his creation of parody works if he is not selling the items. Caper13 18:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The most NPOV term would be "litigation", but you already deleted that. Litigation does not imply the validity or motive of the action. 'Protection' implies that the ownership of the thing is well established, and that they are not just using it as a pretense. This all requires assessment of their motives, which we really should not speculate on. If we wish to stick to what was verifiable, all we can say (roughly) is that 1) he was making and selling items that were a parody, 2) Starbucks sued him on grounds of trademark infringement, 3) he argued that he was just expressing his free speech rights, 4) the court ruled that could contine making them, but that he could not profit from their sale.

What we can not verify (and should not speculate about) is what were starbuck's motives? Were they to prevent the massive losses that he was costing them? Or were they just using litigation to to shut down an annoying and embarrassing parody under the pretense of trademark protection? If the the later, than it would be disingenuous to use the word 'protection' for what would more accurately be termed 'bullying'. So which was the true motive for the litigation? If the former, then 'protection' would be correct. If the latter than 'bullying' would be correct. Do you know what their motives were? Do you know what was in their heart-of-hearts? If not, then do not imply that you do by choosing a loaded word like 'protection'. Stick with a simple statement of what can be observed: they litigated.

The word 'Litigation' does not imply a motive. It only says what is verifiable. Let's avoid mind-reading, and stick with what can be verfied. -Gomm 23:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, this change was NOT a minor edit. Please do not mark edits like this as minor. Caper13 18:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems fairly minor to me. In fact, except for fixing a spelling error, I can think of few more minor edits. Now, adding or deleting content, that would not be minor. I was only clarifying the meaning. It was minor. -Gomm 23:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:MILHIST Coordinator Elections

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are looking to elect seven coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by February 11!

Delivered by grafikbot 10:35, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Napoleonics Updates

Hello Gomm,
Thanks for the heads-up regarding warboxes. I just tried to make it a little more uniform with other war/battle articles I read, like the wars of antiquity, which all had commas for lists. But by all means I consider myself a very new, inexperienced user still, so I would certainly accept your expertise on the matter. Indeed, I think it is a good idea to send messages before we make changes from each other's edits. That will make it less time-consuming and more efficient.
Again, I appreciate the advice.--Arsenous Commodore 15:20, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Arvand, Was that a Yes or a No on commas in list formats? -Gomm 16:23, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing that up for me Gomm. And especially the tutorial to the Warbox page, that certainly helps me for future edits. And I'll be honest, I probably wouldn't have found that page by myself, LOL. Seeing as how vast the Napoleonic Wars are, I can help you out putting in the commas again.--Arsenous Commodore 15:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Military History elections

The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting seven coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of sixteen candidates. Please vote here by February 25!

Delivered by grafikbot 14:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clearcutting

Gomm- land conversion is not an issue for foresters, but for developers. I am pretty sure that developers don't call it clearcutting when they deforest an area in order to change it. I don't think I can find a citation for the idea that a developer would not call clearing land clearcutting, it's easy to find citations for what things are: penguins occur naturally in the south pole region, but hard to find citations for what they are not, like documentation that there are no wild penguins in Colorado. Also, while much of the clearcutting article is written like a criticism of all forestry (reduces diversity, removes trees etcetera) clearcutting is the removal of all trees with the purpose of exposing bare mineral soil. That is very different than the occasional skid mark in a selection cut. That fact may be unclear in the article, in fact, a lot of it is sort of a mess. But what we could accidentally end up doing is leaving it with its "clearcutting bad, clearcutting good" structure with lots of sprinkled caveats, which is altogether less informative. I'm thinking maybe a textbook definition should be the majority of the article and the opinions and controversy section should be small and at the end until it can be fully attributed to published experts. 128.101.70.98 15:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear 128.101.70.98 - You are absolutely right. Around here, when developers want to cut down all the trees to convert it to another use, they hire real loggers, and they call it clearcutting, not clearfelling. But do we really want to get into word games? This is a page for general readership, and I don't think that information transfer is really benefitted by saying that when loggers are brought in to cut down all the trees on a piece of land, that this is not clearcutting because after burning and replanting the site will be subdivided into residential lots and most of the little trees will be buldozed for roads and housed. Common sense says that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is, and saying that it is not a clearcut because the trees we replant are not intented for timber production, is probably the sort of thing that seems to annoy people about forestry.

The comment about clearcutting is the removal of all trees with the purpose of exposing bare mineral soil is perhaps the most mystifying I have ever read in Wikipedia. Of all the purposes identified for clearcutting, I don't ever remember anybody saying 'I want to clearcut so I can expose some mineral soil. Exposing mineral soil might sometimes benefit regeneration (although much of the world has started manually planting seedlings), or might be viewed as a necessary evil (from the logging operations), but not even the most radical 'tree hugger' would suggest that the purpose of logging is to expose mineral soils (and cause massive erosion into streams). They might say that greedy timber companies don't care that they are exposing mineral soils to erosion, but that would be attributed to greed, rather than pure evil. -Gomm 03:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Let me clarify: from the standpoint of a silviculturalist, clearcutting is a technique for regenerating forests for trees that require exposed bare mineral soil. Therefore responsible clearcutting is enacted with the expressed purpose of exposing bare mineral soil, or "soil scarification." I know that this is acknowleged by the Society of American Foresters and certain Indian reservation forestry operations. I can find textbook citations on this, and I understand that it is a common misconception that exposure of bare mineral soil is a side effect of clearcutting, not the foresters intention as a neccessity to regeneration of the desired species. Manually planting seedlings is also often prohibitively expensive.128.101.70.98 18:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Seattle

Yo--you a local? Considered joining the Seattle WikiProject? --Lukobe 18:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. -Gomm 20:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] French History

Gomm - you should be aware that the structure of all of the History of France articles -- France in the nineteenth century, France in the twentieth century, Early Modern France and France in the Middle Ages -- have the same structures. If you are going to change the outline structure in one, you should probably do it in all. -- NYArtsnWords 22:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I see. You are right. -Gomm 22:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of Leipzig

I am waiting on sources and I would prefer you didn't start taking structure down at this point. Thank you Tirronan 23:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

That's good to hear. You might want to post some invisible <! --comments--> in those specific sections for all the other editors. -Gomm 23:28, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

My appologies if I sounded out of sorts, I have been reverting vandals all day and I guess it got the better of me. When I started on Battle of Leipzig it was 1 paragraph believe it or not LOL! Tirronan 23:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of the Falklands

If there was ever an article that needed to be cleaned up this one is it. Could I have you take a rather ruthless look at it? I am inclined to remove another full section and would prefer another take a look at it 1st. As a Naval guy it makes me a bit nuts. Tirronan 23:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

My perferred approach would be more gradual, segregating out the discussion from the description, posting the unattributed speculations as such, and getting on with the fixing of the descriptive parts. Who knows? maybe the these speculations can lead to a well documented discussion in how things have been though about. Stranger things have happened. (Although I would put my money on them never getting attributed, and eventually just getting deleted.) I might even refloat the Coriolis stuff and give folks the chance to back it up. -Gomm 00:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I admit I was intregued by the coriolis effect on naval gunnery but after checking a manual on fire control and understanding there were no sub moa naval guns of that period it wasn't possible. I never did get a reply either. Tirronan 00:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIII - March 2007

The March 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 19:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)