Talk:Gothiscandza
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Does Scandza actually occur as simplex in Jordanes (as claimed on Scandza)? This would speak against the reading gutisk-andja. We should make clear how much depends on the competing analyses of gutisk-andja and guti-skandja (haplological for gutisk-skandja?) dab (ᛏ) 09:39, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, sure. You can have a go at the article. I am writing an article at the moment, and then I have to go teaching.--Wiglaf 09:44, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Well, I can't remember having seen anything but Scandza and Gothiscandza in Getica. The interpretation Gothi-Scandza seems plausible, but I hesitate about the meaning of it. Could it be the "Gothic Scandinavia"?--Wiglaf 22:22, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- "gothi-" seems rather strange. It would have to be "gothisk-". Jordanes, according to Mierow's translation [1] (is the original text online?) does have the simplex, Scandza, right in the introduction:
- "The same mighty sea has also in its arctic region, that is in the north, a great island named Scandza, from which my tale (by God's grace) shall take its beginning."
- Now, Gothiscandza appears right next to Scandza:
- " Now from this island of Scandza, as from a hive of races or a womb of nations, the Goths are said to have come forth long ago under their king, Berig by name. As soon as they disembarked from their ships and set foot on the land, they straightway gave their name to the place. And even to-day it is said to be called Gothiscandza."
- and the implication would be that the names are related. This may be Jordanes' misunderstanding, though. How are we going to reconcile Pliny's Scandia and Jordanes Scandza? It seems quite possible that Scandinavia was simply Scandia, and the new home of the Goths was Gutisk-andza. Jordanes (or his sources) would have misunderstood this as Guti-skandza and believed that Scandza=Scandia. This is just my own speculation at this point, but I am sure this must be discussed in literature somewhere, I'll try to find a reference. The alternative would be that it was, indeed "gutisk-skandja" which was simplified (haplology, even the barbarians weren't fond of saying "-sk-sk-" all the time) to "gutiskandja" and rendered as "gothiscandza" in Latin. dab (ᛏ) 17:21, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- "gothi-" seems rather strange. It would have to be "gothisk-". Jordanes, according to Mierow's translation [1] (is the original text online?) does have the simplex, Scandza, right in the introduction:
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- Yes, there must be some literature on this. Here are some links to Latin versions of the text IORDANIS DE ORIGINE ACTIBUSQUE GETARUM and IntraText. My objection to the interpretation Gothisk-skandza/ia is semantic. If they migrated from Scandia, there would be a strong metonymic relationship between Goths and Scandza, as between Englishmen and Britain. Now, naming the new settlement Gothic Scandza would be to lift out that metonymy, but for a new location, when the old location would still be very much alive as a concept. Imagine that someone called New England English Britain, then it would seem rather strange. This is due to the metonymic relationship between English and Britain which makes the application to a new location seem unlikely. Then again, the tradition of a Scandinavian origin may be inspired by the similarity between Scandia and Gothiscanza.--Wiglaf 20:50, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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