Talk:Guanches
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Is it so generally acknowledeged the relationship between Guanches and Berbers? Davidme
"...they seem to have preserved racial purity..." I find objection to the term "racial purity" on the grounds of my basic knowledge of human population genetics. There is no such thing. It would be worth noting the isolation of the community, however. D.E. Cottrell
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[edit] Image removed
The image itself contains a caption identifying it as a reconstruction of Cro-Magnon man, not a Guanche. The Cro-Magnons are just the earliest modern humans in Europe, so I'm kind of skeptical about the claim that the Guanches are particularly similar to Cro-Magnons; in any case, it's definitely not right to use an image of a reconstructed face from Cro-Magnon remains as if it were an image of a Guanche person. It would be equally valid to show the same image and label it "A Frenchman" or "An Englishman." --Reuben 00:26, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Appearance
Who is inventing about appareance? Please.. read books...
Like the Encyclopaedia Britannica? Please do. And please don't vandalise by removing linked English terms such as Cro-Magnon with Spanish/Italian Cromagnoide. Save it for the Spanish language article, where it might actually be understood.
Why this fear of the appearance of the original population? Some of the Canaries islands had people with dark hair, some islands had populations with fair hair.
This is interesting, and can be used to trace their origins.
Why do you wish to suppress this information? Ashamed of your Spanish ancestors behaviour? Don’t be, we are all descended from people who did horrible things; It’s always the victors who get to breed the next generation.
As to the statement that the Guanches still exist in the Canaries, that makes even less sense than saying that the Indians still populate North America. The Guanches had no place to hide from the Spanish.
Look at Argentina: Almost no Indians in their ancestry, just Spaniards and Italians with a smattering of other European and middle eastern people. Why? Just flat grasslands where the indigenous population could not hide from the mounted Spaniards. Then look at mountainous and forested Bolivia; Quite a lot of natives surviving. There you can say that the indigenous people still exist today. Indigenous Guanche people living in the Canary Islands today? Get real..
OK, slight modification to the last bit. (slightly red ears) This site Aporte genético guanche a los canarios actuales states that DNA testing of the population indicates that 10% of the genes that are only passed down the paternal line are Guanche, and that 30%-40% of the genes that are only passed down the maternal line are guanche. Not sure about the accuracy of the site though.
Assuming the last number is 35% that means that about 22.5% of the genes in any given Canarian are from Guanche ancestors. For those not so good at percentages that means; between a fifth and a quarter of the ancestors (male and female) were Guanche.
Anyway, that percentage does not in anyway support your phrase change from "The Guanches, now extinct as a distinct people" to "The Guanches, now alive in actual canaries". Besides being factualy inaccurate it is fairly sloppy english (said by another non native speaker, now without spelling checker...).
The article goes on to state that what probably hapened was that the Spanish came and killed or enslaved all the males and thereafter took their women. Makes sense. Why bring with you a short frigid Catholic brunette all the way from Spain when you can rape your way through your personal harem of stately blondes. Of course, maybe they were nice about it. I bet some of them got married. This kind of thing has happened countles times before and will happen again. DNA testing of India's population indicates something similar Genetic evidence suggests European migrants may have influenced the origins of India's caste system. And then we have the not very gentle-men really, the Anglo-Saxons Saxon hordes ousted celts. Don't go researching your ancestors to far back, you might not like what you find...
The Europeans did not invent rape. All cultures practiced it. Remember Genghis Khan and the Mongols? They were not very European last time I checked.
[edit] again...
I have the enciclopedya brittanica too, but one of our is Canary, and arent you? I born here, I study my history, I speak whit the most important scientists about Guanches of actuallity, you based MY HISTORY, in desfased colonialist texts, maybe you must read cronists and source texts and then study what is truth, and then speak. Im so close to my precolonialist history, and if you arent some kind of scientist resident in canary, I think you cant speak about you dont know. You cant wirte about the history of a country, reading 5 minutes the enciclopedy brittanica.
Cro-Magnon in spanish is Cro-mañon, not cromagnoide, ( cromañoide in spanish ) is used to refeer to a certain genetic tipology.
The problem is the colonialist, who want to "europeist" canary islands, hehe, and there are not berbers blod whit blue eyes? That is the problem, and... what about the guanches hadnt place to hide from spaniards?? Gomera wasnt colonized, for example, to Gran Canaria, come 1000 colonist, and 300 died, 700 colonist and 35000 Canaries, in tenerife become 700 colonist, in a island of 30000 Guanches. Do you think that we are blonds cause europeans... HA HA, some centuries ago from Realejos peace, the most of the island was uncontroled by spaniards, for example, spaniards dont go more far than Güimar in XVI century.
I think you dont know nothing about my history.
http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/mleal/articles/africa/24.htm by Garcia Talavera, actual director of the antropology museum of Tenerife. ( Museo de la ciencia y el hombre )
You can see the most recent study made in canary, and the first whit a critteria ( to be grand father and grand matter canaries, and if possible his parents too, grangran father ? )
http://www.azarug.org/debate/viewthread.php?tid=1814
Is a forum post cause you must paid in EFE and "El dia" emerotec.
[edit] are you joking?
I dont know why do you want change our history.
1º Who said Guanchis or Guanchos... first time that i hear it, and im from Tenerife... 2º Guanches where the inhabitants of TENERIFE, not the first, cause the werent a homogenous population, Guanches were the mixture of some different berber tribes. 3º Origin urcentain? They are berber. 4º Guanchinet is a corrupted term, is well know that Achineche is the correct name of Tenerife, not Chinech, Chinet or Achinet/ch , I Thin you are not berber filologist, my source is. 5º Viera y Clavijo, inveted the guanches extincionist, no other cronist talk about that... Is scientifical demostred that guanches were the most of the population, and are present in the most of actual population. 6º Most of them where cristianized 7º Mummyes is a incorrect term, taht are called, XAXOS 8º Embalming is a incorrect term, that is called Mirlado 9º Europeans tryed along history, destroy Canary Culture, creating a "particular hate to ours", that guanches were all blond and atll, is a intent of convert guanches to european, and destroy a bit more our real naturally, that have no fundament, in fact is well know, that guanches were of all heigh and colours, like my description, and it is cause berber are so similar, you can see so many berber redhaired or blonds.
Dont be fanatic, dont change the history of others, or maybe I will visit some post about England and say the truth, that Nelson lost his arm in Santa Cruz, against milicians, not spanish army, they were Milicians, the same people who descent from guanches. Spanish wasnt the unique who lost men against us.
[edit] Changes to Appearance
The Appearance section of this article has been plagued with a lack of structure for some time. I have tried to organize it thus: 1) first accounts of the Canary Islanders' appearance 2) theories of their origin based on their appearance 3) facts (linguistic and genetic evidence linking at least some of the population to a northern African origin), existence of the oft-mentioned fair traits in modern northern African populations, and a related citation.
Throughout the article, there still remains some rather archaic language stemming from the original Britannica piece dating from about a hundred years ago (Until recently, it read as follows: it is due to the perseverance of D. Aquilino Padran, a priest of Las Palmas, that anything about the inscription on the island Hierro has been brought to light. In 1878 Dr R. Verneau discovered in the ravines of Las Balos some genuine Libyan inscriptions. Without exception the rock inscriptions have proved to be Numidic...). It's nice and flowery and all, but not really Wiki-propriate.
I'm much less concerned with the passions surrounding the racial background of the Canary Islanders than I am with presenting coherently what was observed, what has been theorized, and what has been established as fact. Twalls 07:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
"...however, it is generally accepted by modern Spanish historians that the Guanches as a whole, were dark or tan-skinned, dark-haired and dark-eyed, much like present day North Africans."
I think this statement is problematic. The Guanches as a whole? Which historians claim this? Also, are the historians referred to Spanish, or historians of Spanish history? Is this a question for historians or geneticists? Is there a reason for such a blanket dismissal of the original accounts? Citations, please - if they can make the case, great! Thanks! Twalls
[edit] Weaponry
I have changed this section:
1. The weaponry wasn't similar to the southern european paleolithic, but, to north África tradition, adaptated to the canarian enviroment (no metals) and evolutionated under the influence of medieval europeans. 2. There weren't differences in these matters between islands. 3. The weaponry is similar in all islands, but there light difference as i show. 4. No axes in Gran Canaria.
-Fco
[edit] disease
Roy Porter suggests that the Guanches had little resistance to European diseases such as smallpox, which the Spanish brought to the islands, and this was a major contributor to their rapid population decline - there appears to be no mention of this in the article 192.250.97.6 11:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC) Chris H 4 Dec 2006
- This is an excellent point. Thanks for brigning it up! Twalls 23:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
