Talk:Guarana

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Contents 1 guaranine, and caffeine - old postings, new info 2 Effects 3 guaranine is . . . ? 4 more on composition, now from Dr.Duke's db 4.1 Guaranine has always been a Mixture 5 Composition 6 List of brand-name drinks containing Guarana 7 Links

[edit] guaranine, and caffeine - old postings, new info

http://www.guarana.com/ says

The taste of Guarana is distinctive and unique, and the main reason for its success in Brazil as a soft drink. The main ingredient of guarana is guaranine, which is chemically identical to caffeine.

A few questions:

1. Does "the main ingredient of guarana" mean the main ingredient of the berry guarana, or of the soft drink guarana? (if the former, what is an "ingredient" of a plant?)

It's the main ingredient of the berry.

2. Is the berry a stimulant?

no.

3. Is the berry caffeinated?

Yes. It contains up to three times the amount of caffeine you would typically find in coffee beans.

4. Is the drink a stimulant?

Not necessarily. Orginal Brazilian guarana soft drinks contain up to 0.5% guaranine/caffeine, which is hardly enough to make a difference. Modern energy drinks however contain up to 100 mg per serving.

• (Really? 0.5% mass/volume would be 1000mg of caffeine per 200mL, which I doubt anyone would consider a weak dose.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.79.5.225 (talk • contribs)..

5. Is the drink caffeinated?

Yes.

6. what does "chemically identical" mean? if they're "identical", why do they have different names?

Caffeine is the official name; the name 'guaranine' was given to it by scientists before it became clear that both were identical. The name 'guaranine' survived mainly because it sounds more interesting than 'caffeine'. It's all about marketing.

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Are you definetly sure that guaranine molecule is identical to this coffeine molecule? Can you post some proof of this? Posted, unsigned, at 08:38, on July 21, 2006 by User:Conscious

Deja vu and long time ago. --Jclerman 15

50, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The NIH and the ACS are sure. That's why their chem databases give it as equal to caffeine, mateine, etc. See, e.g., [1]. Once there, find the "search" box and enter "guaranine" Jclerman 01:42, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I ask this because there is the possibility that you have made your statement based on empirical formula, not on structural formula. The diffrence is that the first one allows atoms to place diffrently and still have the same kind of formula, this is called isomerism (?). For example the ch3 at the bottom left connected to that nitrogen might instead be connected to the one on top and the carbon nitrogen double bond woud be at bottom.

This would alter the connectivity of said methyl group in multiple ways, so the resulting substance would no longer be isomeric to caffeine. For example, this would introduce an additional CH3-N-C-N-CH3 connection (resulting in a total of two such connections) that was not previously there. In effect, caffeine is an achiral molecule, which means it does not have any isomers. By the way, there are no "proofs" in science, only evidence. Aragorn2 19:33, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

What you seem to be describing is an enantiomer, which is only one possible kind of isomer. Moving atoms around, as described, is a form of isomerism, just not enantiomerism.

However, as to the original question of whether guaranine is identical to caffeine, the evidence is here, which shows the chemical structure of "guaranine," identical to that of caffeine above. Chuck 20:44, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

---

There are a number of different brands quality in comparison with South American brands of Guarana; many of them tasting nothing like traditional Guarana. It would do a wise consumer well to purchase a South American brand of Guarana, preferably of Brazilian origin.

Now this sounds a bit like an ad, how about some neutrality? -- 84.157.139.125 13:46, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Done - MPF 09:34, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

And lets not forget that there are basically two kinds of guaraná-drinks; the soda-flavored one, as the article mentioned, and also something called by the brazilians as "natural guarana", which is not gaseified, very sweet and look rather dark (as in a pop/coke/soda without gas) as opposed to the soft drink that has beer-like colors.LtDoc 17:12, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Effects

Sad no one put this is there before. It's not just normal caffeine. Guaranine (natural caffeine in guarana seeds)compared to other forms of artificially induced caffeines is proven to have a 2 and a half times stronger effect on the human body (250%) when in the same amounts. Obviously meaning, for someone drinking something with guaranine, another person would have to drink 250% of artificial caffeine just to keep up.

Needless to say. Drink Bawls. >_<

Could you provide a citation for that? I'll mark that part of the article "disputed" for now. Chuck 20:44, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

With no source cited, and being unable to find a source for this claim myself, I'm deleting it. Chuck 23:39, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] guaranine is . . . ?

Please give a reference to this statement:

<< and a unique combination of slow-release caffeine, theophylline and theobromine collectively referred to as guaranine. >> Jclerman 01:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Scroll up to see the structural formula. Jclerman 02:11, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Since ChemId gives this [2] where guaranine is a synonym of caffeine it's warranted to edit that sentence in the article. Jclerman 01:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] more on composition, now from Dr.Duke's db

Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases

Chemicals in: Paullinia cupana KUNTH ex H.B.K. (Sapindaceae) -- Guarana

---

Chemicals (alpha order, concentration given*)

ADENINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
ASH Seed 14,200 ppm; DUKE1992A 
CAFFEINE Seed 25,000 - 76,000 ppm DUKE1992A 
CATECHUTANNIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A 
CHOLINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
D-CATECHIN Seed: DUKE1992A 
FAT Seed 30,000 ppm; DUKE1992A 
GUANINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
GUARANINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
HYPOXANTHINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
MUCILAGE Seed: DUKE1992A 
PROTEIN Seed 98,600 ppm; DUKE1992A 
RESIN Seed 70,000 ppm; DUKE1992A 
SAPONIN Seed: DUKE1992A 
STARCH Seed 50,000 - 60,000 ppm DUKE1992A 
TANNIN Seed 85,000 - 120,000 ppm DUKE1992A 
THEOBROMINE Seed 330 ppm; DUKE1992A 
THEOPHYLLINE Seed 570 ppm; DUKE1992A 
TIMBONINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
XANTHINE Seed: DUKE1992A 

(*) ppm = parts per million
    tr = trace

[edit] Guaranine has always been a Mixture

Not for the ChemId Plus and ACS (CAS numbers) databases. Scroll here up to see the structural formula and also in the chemical databases look for the names and synonyms. Enter guaranine in its search box and read the findings, the formulas, the code numbers, the references, etc. Similarly, you'll also find that a synonym of caffeine is mateine. There is no doubt since the structural formulas are identical. Jclerman 03:23, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

See also Raintree Tropical Plant Dabase: Guaraná Jclerman 04:06, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Jclerman, your article link to ChemID Plus yields the following page:

Either you have remained idle too long or an unexpected error has occurred. Return to the main query page and resubmit your query. If you feel this is an error, please send an e-mail to the ChemIDplus team.

Sorry, the NLM issues dynamic pages that expire after a short time. The following is a better approach that should be valid always.

The links below take you to the URLs where to initiate searches. Just enter guaranine or any other drug name in the search boxes.

• PubChem

• ChemIDplus Lite

• ChemIDplus Advanced

• TOXNET Jclerman 04:47, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Composition

Deja vu: The abstract herewith referenced DOES NOT MATCH THE STATEMENT GIVEN:

<< Also, guarana seed extract has a slower absorbsion rate than other sources of caffeine. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9657057&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_Abstract%20slow%20absorption%20rate >>

Please, provide an appropriate citation matching the intended edit or abstain from editing in unsourced info. Jclerman 04:20, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

• Dowieite (talk • contribs) who added this text appears to be another sockpuppet of Zephram Stark. --JW1805 (Talk) 04:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

A deja vu reference to an abstract that does not match the statements. Same as seen many times in the recent past in the guarana and guaranine articles. Now also similar statements were also introduced in one of the energy drinks.Jclerman 05:05, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of brand-name drinks containing Guarana

They are gradually accumulating; there's 24 now. Anyone else think this is getting a bit out-of-hand? Is it really necessary? - MPF 01:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest another article about the drinks, leaving a brief reference in this article about the plant. Jclerman 02:14, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

On the back of Bawls bottles, it is stated that it contains natural guarana extract. Their website states differently however. Should it be added to the list of Guarana containing beverages? - AlexMcKinsey 22:02, 08 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. I haven't seen a bottle. Which one lists the correct info, the bottle or the website? Jclerman 06:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the paragraph should simply mention that guarana is an increasingly popular ingredient in so-called "energy drinks," or soft drinks with caffeine and guarana. Then later, near the bottom of the article, a header List of Guarana-Containing Drinks? or something, and just list them by maker and soda name. That would at least be cleaner. Plus, here's another one: Jones Soda's Whoop Ass. Listed on the side of the can (yes, that's a can of whoop-ass). Gaviidae 16:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Took Gaviidae's advice and made the list into an actual list towards the bottom of the article. Also added Bawls to the list, because the debate of whether or not it contains the flavour or extract is silly. Both sources say it is natural, and the only way to get natural guarana flavour is to use the extract. La Bicyclette 00:34, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't the FDA require ONLY that natural refers to the original substance not being synthetic? See [3] Jclerman 02:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Links

I changed many of the sources to reference-style footnotes, but dunno if it's still right. Deleted one paragraph under diet because it said "another study in 1997" which actually was the same study as referenced earlier, and added info from another link which didn't name the study, only mentioned it. Added one reference of my own; tried to find as many PubMed numbers as I could-- nutrition journals don't seem to be listed. Could someone check on all this?

Also, should wikipedia be giving advice, even if (or especially if) it comes from some website (example "drugs.com recommends")...? Gaviidae 16:41, 27 November 2006 (UTC)