Talk:Gustav Horn, Count of Pori
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Of course, there was no "count of Pori" in the Swedish aristocracy, this is an anachronism.
[edit] Horn af Björneborg
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was No consensus Duja► 09:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
The name registered with the Swedish House of Nobility is Horn af Björneborg. Wikipedia should not be used to invent new names. Teuton 14:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
- Oppose. The proposed name is against the naming convention of Wikipedia, which clearly says this biography should be under his title of count. Additionally, this is English Wikipedia, not a place to mask people's names' behind their translations to Swedish. In English Wikipedia, it is totally irrelevant how a person was registered in a Swedish institution. We do not have Catherine II of Russia behind such name as "Prinzessin Sophie Auguste Friederike zu Anhalt-Zerbst", although she undoubtedly had been registered as such in some German institution. Suedois 00:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Dear Sueadoise, I suggest you take a look on the discussions om this site on how names are to be treated. The consensus is that the original names are used. Kings and roylaties have also been translated into English, which is acceptable but in my opinion not suitable for the nobility in general. The noble family Horn af Björneborg was ennobled by the Swedish king, therefore I chose to inform you of the full official name as it has always been recorded in the Swedish House of Nobility (I fail to see you point when you say this is of no relevance). You are inventing Finnish names here which is unacceptable. (I am quite surprised you did not translate also Horn to Torvi (Finnish)). Teuton 19:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- Strongly oppose Use English. Septentrionalis 21:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
- Strongly support We should use English, but not Finnish. Transalations of names into English are accepted only for royalties. The name is Count Horn af Björneborg. Teuton 17:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
- Strongly support Of course where English names are in use they are the ones to be used, also i Wikipedia. However, for a large number of foreign subjects there are no English translation of their names. When it comes to Swedish historical persons, without any translated names, the Swedish names are to be used. This should mean that Swedish names should be used for all, but historical royalties. For some reason Finnish names are used for many Swedish historical persons. This must be considered incorrect. Finland was not a separate state, not even a separate region of Sweden. It was fully incorporated, in difference for example Scotland with the UK, and the Finnish language had no official recognition in this State. Finland as a separate area was invented in 1809, when it became part of the Russian empire, but not even then did the Finnish language become an official language. Of course Finnish names should be used for Finnish persons, but for the Counts Horn or for that part the more recent Marshal Baron Mannerheim, they must correctly be named in Swedish. If Wikipedia should use present translations of historical names consequently, this would mean that for example the German Prince von Pless, would be known as the Prince von Pszczyna, the Irish dukes of Leinster as the dukes of Laighin or the Austrian dukes of Teschen would be called dukes of Český Těšín. The consquence of this would only be confusion and for this reason I strongly suggest a cleanup among Finnish names on historical Swedes.
Carl (not Kaarlo)
