Talk:Heinrich Harrer

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Harrer as a younger man was a fanatic national socialist, illegal street fighter in Austria for Hitlers stormtroopers since 1933 and as an author of world bestsellers he has never reflected over his involvement. One of his friend was Bruno Beger, SS-war criminal and involved of killing 86 people from the Auschwitz concentration camp. Harrer himself has not killed anybody - but he never discussed his involvement with the Nazis. Like many sportsmen - even todays - he never was able to take over responsibility for social and historical questions. The portray down here is more than whitewashing. If you know details out of his SS-record (National Archives, Washington DC) its nearly funny, how Harrer is described down here. One more fact that wikipedia never will be a source of checked information. Its a propaganda platform in cases like Harrer and others.

Please read the huge article in Vanity Fair from 1997. Down here: http://www.bergrettung.at/uploads/nuetzliches/HarrerSS-VanityFair1997a.jpg

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Was he really a Nazi?

These imply so:

• Seven Years in Tibet (film)
• THE PERSONALIZED SUNDIAL (SA in '33, party & SS in '38)

Yes, he was really a nazi and this article seems to whitewash that fact. The fact is he supported nazism in 1933 before the nazis came to Austria, and nazism was infact illegal there at the time. see http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6173/harrnazi.htm --Mista-X 22:02, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

It doesn't really whitewash, more point out the fact that just because he was a member of the Nazi Party doesn't necessarily make him a bad person. He has no record of war crimes (for obvious reasons) and even Simon Wiesenthal said that Harrer had a clean record. It is sad to see so many articles focus on his short involvement with the Nazi Party and the Schutzstaffel when he spent the majority of his life contributing to the many different races of mankind.

[edit] What Olympic sport?

What was the sport he represented in the 1936 Olympics?? JackofOz 05:39, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Re Olympic ski champion:

• Some sources might be relying on the film's version:
  • Seven Years in Tibet
  • Ask Audrey - previous questions answered ("Alas, Harrer never even competed at the Olympics, far less won a medal. Another case of Hollywood not letting the facts get in the way of a good story!")
• I've tried to find sources about Olympics outside the context of the film. --Jerzy(t) 05:44, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC))
  • The Strange Journey of Heinrich Harrer & Heinrich Harrer Biography & Lost Lhasa: Heinrich Harrer's Tibet (Eiger or mtneering mentioned as source of fame, no mention of Olympics)
  • Authors / Heinrich Harrer ("His skiing prowess won him a place in the 1936 Austrian Olympic team")
  • Seven Years In Tibet - Heinrich Harrer ("Olympic ski champion")
  • Eiger live: Eiger-Nordwand-Durchsteigung ("...he made his reputation initially as a mountaineer and skier, being selected for the Austrian Olympic team in 1936.")
  • Travelers' Tales ("Olympic skiing champion")
  • At De:Diskussion:Heinrich Harrer, i've attempted a translation of part of their article, & requested review of it by others more bilingual than i. The results would make better source material than my attempt. (But i note that it does not support his winning any Olympic medal.) --Jerzy(t) 05:44, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC)

BTW, re medal:

• Seven Years in Tibet (film)
• Seven Years in Tibet (Superbit Collection) (1997) ("Heinrich Harrer: That's the Olympic gold medal. Not important." Short on context but suggestive.)
• Independent News ('Believing that only German climbers could succeed on the Eigerwand, Hitler had promised Olympic medals to the "conquerors".') The olympic-medal talk in the movie and elsewhere may reflect either entering into the spirit of Hitler's "promise", or a gullible assessment of that promise's realizibility. --Jerzy(t) 05:44, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC)

The International Olympic Committees' database at http://www.olympic.org/ shows that nobody named Harrer has ever won an Olympic medal. -- Arwel 11:29, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

My copy of The White Spider' (in English translation) says on the frontispiece that he was in the 1936 Austrian Olympic Ski Team. I think that the article is wrong to says that he was in the Berlin olympics. Berlin for skiing??? A google places the winter olympics of 1936 in Garmisch-Partenkirchen in Bavaria.--JBellis 21:21, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well, for the Garmisch-Partenkirchen Winter Olympics in 1936, the IOC database shows the following team sports results:

4-man bobsleigh: G: Switzerland S: Switzerland B: GB

2-man bobsleigh: G: USA S: Switzerland B: USA

4x10km cross-country ski-ing: G: Finland S: Norway B: Sweden

Mixed pairs figure skating: G: Germany (Baier & Herber) S: Austria (Pausin & Pausin) B: Hungary (Rotter & Szollas)

Ice hockey: G: GB S: Canada B: USA

Individual sports results:

Alpine ski-ing, mens' combined: G: Pfnür (GER), S: Lantschner (GER), B: Allais (FRA)

Alpine ski-ing, womens' combined: G: Cranz (GER), S: Grasegger (GER), B: Schou-Nilsen (NOR)

18km cross-country ski-ing: G: Larsson (SWE), S: Hagen (NOR), B: Niemi (FIN)

50km cross-country ski-ing: G: Wiklund (SWE), S: Wikström (SWE), B: Englund (SWE)

Mens' figure skating: G: Schäfer (AUT), S: Baier (GER), B: Kaspar (AUT)

Womens' figure skating: G: Henje (NOR), S: Colledge (GB), B: Hulten (SWE)

Nordic combined ski-ing: G: Hagen (NOR), S: Hoffsbakken (NOR), B: Brodahl (NOR)

K90 (70m) ski jump: G: Ruud (NOR), S: Eriksson (SWE), B: Andersen (NOR)

10,000m speed skating: G: Ballangrud (NOR), S: Wasenius (FIN), Stiepl (AUT)

1500m speed skating: G: Mathisen (NOR), S: Ballangrud (NOR), B: Wasenius (FIN)

5000m speed skating: G: Ballangrud (NOR), S: Wasenius (FIN), B: Ojala (FIN)

500m speed skating: G: Ballangrud (NOR), S: Krog (NOR), B: Freisinger (USA)

So that's pretty conclusive then, no 1936 Winter Olympics medals for Harrer.. -- Arwel 22:18, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks folks, belatedly. This seemed to have slipped off my watchlist, and I've only just caught up with all that fabulous research that my question triggered off. I've now made an edit to the main article denying that he won any medals. Better to have the matter out there explicitly than leave question marks in the minds of readers who have read elsewhere that he was a medal winner. JackofOz 06:40, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

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News on this: according to his own book "Heinrich Harrer: Mein Leben" (engl. "My life"; ISBN 3548364985 (in German)) he was part of the Austrian Skiing team and was ment to participate in the downhill and slalom tournaments of the 1936 olympiad. Only on the day before the olympiad, the Austrian (just as the Swiss) Skiing Team decided to boycott the Olympiad. Therefore, Harrer never actively participated in a olympic competition. This is also approved by http://www.olympic.org/uk/games/past/index_uk.asp?OLGT=2&OLGY=1936 ("Incensed, the Austrian and Swiss skiers boycotted the events.")

This should be added to the article; I would like to wait for the discussion in the german article to approve this news before editing the article though. -- Wirthi 16:02, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

This fact was discussed on the article's discussion page in the german wikipedia and there were no major opposers. So i entered the fact here, too. --Wirthi 20:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unintegrated Source Material, Removed from Article

According to http://www.harrerportfolio.com/HarrerBio.html "Harrer has received numerous honors, including the Gold Humboldt Medal and the Explorers Club Medal for his many expeditions and explorations. He has written over 20 books and received credit on over 40 film productions. His body of work spans five decades of exploration over six continents. In addition, Heinrich Harrer has become widely known as an outspoken advocate of human rights". Also of note, "Heinrich Harrer and the exiled Dalai Lama remain steadfast friends". [Moved here by Jerzy(t) 05:44, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC)]