Talk:Henna

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, an attempt to better organise information in articles related to plants and botany. For more information, visit the project page.
???	This article has not yet received a quality rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received an importance rating on the importance scale.

Contents 1 Henna and Mehndi Merge 2 Henna : Also a natual dye for textile 3 Article Organization and Cites 4 Henna vs Mehndi 5 External link cleanup

[edit] Henna and Mehndi Merge

The Henna and Mehndi articles are currently merged, as discussing these separately leads to two short articles with redundant content. Should a more expansive cultural exploration of mehndi be provided, the articles may need to be split. For purposes of readability this seems the best current solution. Metaeducation 18:59, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Henna : Also a natual dye for textile

Henna is also a natural Dye for textiles. But because it is used for body and hair coloring its importance as a natural dye for textiles has been ignored

[edit] Article Organization and Cites

This article has a lot of very interesting information but it's not well organized and in many cases could use some citations. Before I jump in and start making major edits I want to talk about it a little bit. Is anyone else working on this page actively? Is there any history of discussions I should know about? Is this page your "baby"? Let's talk about fixing it. Or if no one else cares I'll just go for it.

Vowofsilence 21:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Henna vs Mehndi

Small technicality, but surely Henna should redirect to Mehndi and not the other way around, giving that the use of the second by the combined populations of S. Asia far otweighs the usage of the first. Sfacets 16:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

... Actually, though this is a common perception, that is not the case. All of North and East Africa have strong henna traditions, as do the Levant, Iran, the Arabian Peninsula, and Malaysia. The African, Levantine and Arab henna traditions are also far older. The perception that South Asia is primary and dominant in henna is a misconception driven by Indian dominance media and diasporas. Really. Honest. I spent hundreds of hours in the British Library piecing that together. Mehndi is also not "the preparation of the plant." In Hindi speaking regions, the plant and art are both Mehndi. In Arab speaking regions, the plant and art are both henna. In crossover regions, where Muslims dominate commerce and production and Hindus may be purchasers, there is a perception through packaging that the plant is henna and the art is mehndi, but this is only because of a border anomoly in economic linguistics. 1hennaphd 17:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me that Mehndi is a particular preparation of the henna plant, so henna is the more general term and it makes sense for it to be an umbrella term. But it looks like the Mehndi page is back despite the comment from October that they are merged. Are you getting a redirect? I don't see a problem with them being separate articles. Mehndi art surely deserves its own page, since it has such a big scope and history. And I'm seeing a lot of anonymous edits lately adding all kinds of uses for henna that are very different from Mehndi. It seems to me that this could be the general page about the various uses of the henna page and link to Mehndi which is a specific use of the plant.

But this page needs some serious organizing and editing for clarity. Which I am working on little by little.

Vowofsilence 21:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you contact Catherine Cartwright-Jones, who runs hennapage.com. She's a doctoral student in cultural geography, working on her PhD studying geographical patterns of henna cultivation and use. She's done extensive research in language, literature and iconography related to henna and though she's always avoided getting directly involved in editing at Wikipedia, she would probably be willing to advise you as you work on the henna article.

49oxen 19:05, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Of the nations across Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, the Levant, South Asia and Malaysia, the word henna is the dominant word for the plant and art ... "henna" being carried by the Arab language. In India, there are over 20 different transliterations for different words for "henna" in the different languages of the subcontinent, and this fragments the potential for the use of "mehndi" (mehandi, mehedi, mehendi, etc) Therefore, I believe "henna" should be the dominant article, by grace of widest useage. Some of the languages of India have a word for henna that is plausibly translated to "mehndi" , but there are many others. I believe the greatest useage is considered the primary useage. "Henna", then would be primary, by virtue of the greatest number of countries and languages.

If it were to be my decision, I would place "mehndi" as the relatively narrow definition of henna use in Hindi-speaking India. 1hennaphd 07:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External link cleanup

This article is attracting all forms of commercial links which goes against WP:EL guidelines. Specifically links promoting products and services and links with excessive advertising. WP is not a directory of links (WP:NOT) nor is it a medium to promote a website or commercial project. Please discuss any link additions here before adding. Thanks! Calltech 20:56, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I would like to contribute to this article, and have linked to the articles I have written on henna as part of my PhD research. I am not linking to anything commercial. There are few other web-based resources that are as focused on topic. These articles are reviewed by my profs, and are fully referenced. Perhaps you might read the links before you delete them?

• I just reviewed all of your recent edits and noticed you removed the links to your website on your last one. Please accept my apology for not seeing this before I reverted them and thanks again for your contributions and for removing your links on your own. I reverted my own revert to the last version that you edited. Please sign your comments using 4 tildes (~). Calltech 13:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

````worked on the article a bit. I'll work more soon.

• You added links back to your website again. Please stop this process of website promotion. I'm placing another warning message on your new User page also. WP is not a medium to promote your website and adding these 7 links is link spamming. Calltech 10:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

````This is not a commercial website. This is not promotion of a website. These are links to articles with scholarly referencing. they happen to be on the same website, but that website was recommended by wikiverse as a reliable source of information, and this information is not available anywhere else. I AM doing my Phd on henna, and this is not promotion. This is providing credible, referenced source material.

Adding multiple links to your own website (whether commercial or not) is link spamming WP:EL and conflict of interest WP:COI. Please review these guidelines. Also, please use 4 tildes (~) as a signature for your comments. Calltech 15:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

What is the website in question? Sfacets 14:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• hennapage.com. In the article history, you'll see multiple link edits made first by user user talk:69.81.131.191 and now by User Talk:1hennaphd, the same user. User has been continuously tagging multiple keywords in the article with links to her website. Calltech 15:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

````I did not intend to spam, only to link to reference articles. It this is not acceptable, I will continue to edit the article, but will not link to additional reference material.

I don't see why the link cannot be used as an external link, it appears to be a good resource on the matter, and if 1hennaphd is indeed a phd student, then it is all the more relevant. (the website has also received a considerable amount of trffic) I understand the concerns surrounding WP:COI and WP:EL links, therefore I am re-adding the link in the external section on behalf of 1hennaphd... Sfacets 16:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

````If you wish to verify that I am working on PhD on henna, you may contact Kent State University. I am registered there in the Geography department. If you wish to review my master's thesis on henna, it is at http://www.hennapage.com/henna/encyclopedia/mastersessay/index.html

I will await your final judgement to linking to articles. I will not link until I have your say-so. If you permit me to link I will continue to link only to articles which have scholarly referencing pertinent to the topic (such as maps, history, botany, summaries of medical articles and chemistry as I have done aready, but which were deleted and considered spam), have no commercial content, and promote no artist. I believe the article would not serve the readers as well if I could not link to extended, supporting material.

• Thanks for your cooperation. User:Sfacets has added your link to the external links section and you should continue to refrain from adding links to your own site which is the basis for WP:COI (conflict of interest). WP recommends that you discuss any potential links to your website first on the talk page and let another impartial editor review it and make the addition as User:Sfacets did. As an aside, you are continuing to use 4 single quotes as your signature rather than the 4 tildes (~). Also sign at the end of your comment, not the beginning. Calltech 17:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I invite the anonymous editor to share his comments here instead of repeatedly vandalizing the article. Sfacets 01:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I support external links to ONLY pages which do not serve to promote an artist or products. If a website has scholarly, substantive information, that's very different. I will continue to do my best to tighten up the henna article without including external links. I would like to add articles to wikipedia on lawsone, night of the henna, camphire, perhaps some others, if you think this would be useful. If you find this acceptable, I will find the time to do so.

If you want to check my qualifications to do these articles, here's my CV: http://www.tapdancinglizard.com/biblos/CVhenna.pdf

If you think links to academic PDF's can be included (even if they're hosted on the same site), I propose listing http://www.hennapage.com/henna/encyclopedia/mastersessay/geoapproachtohenna.zip http://www.hennapage.com/henna/what/freebooks/hinduwedding2.pdf http://www.hennapage.com/henna/what/freebooks/HPJpp2.pdf http://www.tapdancinglizard.com/biblos/significanceofhenna1/sighenna.pdf http://www.hennapage.com/henna/encyclopedia/id/idhenna.zip http://www.hennapage.com/henna/ppd/bigbrochv.pdf (this is translated into several languages, if that's helpful, see:http://www.hennapage.com/henna/ppd/infopak.html)

All of these articles have had academic review, are fully referenced, are non commercial (unless I've overlooked something), and do not promote any artist's services. If you're willing to put external links to these, they may serve your readers well. I'm not going to put these links up without your say-so. 1hennaphd 07:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Can you recommend ways to source the article (which I would be very happy to do) which meet with your guidelines? I don't want to cause a problem with external links, but I'm having difficulty finding authoritative, accessible articles other than my own. My sources are academic papers which I can't link directly to ... 1hennaphd 01:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

You don't necessarily need to link to them, merely providing the reference (author, publication, date etc) is enough. Sfacets 01:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I did a "short list" of references. Please advise .......... 1hennaphd 01:53, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm it would be better to add them between <ref> </ref> tags at the end of statements that require sourcing - and provide page numbers this will add them automatically to the bottom of the article in an ordered list - as they are now it is impossible to tell what they are referencing. Sfacets 02:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your advice. I'll do a few this evening, and if you approve the way they come out, I'll do the rest tomorrow.

ahhhhhhhhhh now I see what its doing (some confusion there at first). I'll finish up the referencing tomorrow.1hennaphd 02:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I have done a fair amount of referencing, but I appear to have failed at whatever it takes to "add them automatically to the bottom of the article in an ordered list" . Can you advise me on the proper way to correct this? 1hennaphd 19:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I found the footnote problem and fixed it. If you approve of the referencing, I request the "This article or section does not cite its references or sources." be removed. I can add more references, and can include page numbers when possible, if you wish. I also request you remove the "spam" warning from my identity, as this was a simple misunderstanding, and not intended as spam. 1hennaphd 03:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I added a second "in article" external link to the current FDA law on henna in the USA. I believe it is crucial that people know precisely what the legal standing of henna is in the US, and be directed to the most recent official statement. It is the unfortunate truth that it is illegal to use henna as body art in the USA, and I believe it would be irresponsible (and might leave Wiki or myself legally culpable) to not have that external link front and center in the article. I hope you do not consider this link to current law spamming ........ I do this because I believe it is necessary for any aspiring henna artist in the US to be aware of their legal situation, and perhaps people reading this might be moved to do something about this outdated regulation. If this internal link is a problem, i can shift it to lower on the page, but ... I feel it merits inclusion. 1hennaphd 06:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

FWIW, I'm finding all of this info extremely helpful. Thanks for lending your expertise! 216.52.69.217 15:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)