User talk:Henrywgc
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Hello, Henrywgc, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} after the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Kings of Alt Clut
I've made a few changes to "wikify" the additions you made, minor tweaks like italicising books and adding hyperlinks for some of the keywords which aren't otherwise linked. As I understand it, the Betha Adamnáin is now thought to be of early 8th century date, so I changed that. Likewise, the link between Coroticus and Dumbarton Rock, if I remember rightly, comes from Patrick's 7th century hagiographers (and thus from Bishop Ultán). Some of the caveats and quibbles are repeated in the articles on individual rulers, but it's certainly good to repeat them. The current "Strathclyde" king-articles use Goidelic style names, but they should probably be changed to Brythonic ones. I'll get round to that eventually. If you want to add notes to your additions, this explains how (you can see them in action in some of the individual king-articles as well). Thanks and welcome to Wikipedia. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks: I was wondering if my contribution was just headed off into the void! I had a chat with Thomas Clancy about the Irish Life of Adamnan a couple of months ago, and I thought from memory that it was quite a late production: certainly, the story that Brude's body was brought to Iona is anachronistic. What's the authority for it being early 8thc.? I'm rather averse to changing the attested forms of personal names, but if you feel it's necessary... My feeling is that there may be good reason why names appear as they do, even surprising reasons, perhaps. --Henrywgc 17:54, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, and the thing about Coroticus: it's in Dumville et al. Saint Patrick, the chapter on the identity of Coroticus. The rex Aloo thing is from Mirchiu' s LIfe, I think. So quite late. --Henrywgc 17:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I've now had a quick look at the tidied-up text: very nice, thank you so much, with accents too! However, I see you' had "7th century" for the Betha Adamnain, which can't be right (he only died in the early 8th! I'll check this properly when I can and emend it - I still think it's 9th or 10th c. Otherwise, excellent! --Henrywgc 18:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
The latest edition of the Irish Life of Adamnan is 'Betha Adamnain: The Irish Life of Adamnan' by Maire Herbert, Padraig O Riain. They date the production to c.960. The poem may of course be earlier, but Clancy says it exhibits no particularly early features. Is this OK for you? --Henrywgc 18:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Muirchu's 'Life' is from the later 7th c. but the chapter headings in which 'Rex Aloo' appears were added later at Armagh. I'll have to go back to Dumville when I'm near a copy and check this, but I think he argued for a fairly late date for this tag. --Henrywgc 18:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I'm more than happy to accept Clancy's view; he's the expert. I got my date from De Paor's Saint Patricks World. The Betha Adamnain being early (indeed: 8th) I think I got from something by James Fraser on the battle of Dunnichen: again, much safer to stick with Herbert's version. Although there's no reference credited, the early kings in the article come from MacQuarrie's paper in Grant & Stringer's Medieval Scotland: Crown, Lordship and Community. The later ones from from there and a paper by Dauvit Broun that I haven't seen myself.
- If you've got some time to spare, Óengus I of the Picts (ghastly title I know, I may rename it to just Onuist and call the 9th century one Ungus) may appear on the front page at the end of the month. It hasn't really been examined very closely, so some harsh criticism would be useful. I'd rather hoped that the relevant volumes of the new Edinburgh history would have been published by now, but no. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:05, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Looks as if the whole page has reverted to its original state. Oh well. --Henrywgc 01:50, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- Sure? It seems ok to me. Angus McLellan (Talk) 10:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
If it's still all there, that's great. Perhaps I still don't quite understand completely how Wiki works. When I was searching for the page again ('Kings of Strathclyde') I got directed to what seemed to be the page before I'd added my critique, emendments, etc.
The page on Oengus looks wonderful: I don't know that much about this side of things, I've been focused mainly on the Gwyr y Gogledd, but I'll have a proper think about it and let you know if there's anything I think might be improved.
--Henrywgc 18:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Had a better look at 'Oengus 1' just now. Great stuff. The only comment I would have from my very narrow perspective is: footnote 8 refers to Rotri as a possible king of Alt Clut. I think this old chestnut was cooked up first by Alan Macquarrie in Stringer et al. I've even seen a website listing one of Rotri's son's as a 'king of Strathclyde'! Can Rotri be permanently removed from the discussion of North British kings? He was a king of Gwynedd in North Wales (see Bartrum 'A Welsh Classical Dictionary'; I think the Brut y Tywyssogion also makes this absolutely clear). --Henrywgc 18:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks, I'll fix that. I have to say that my attempts to get to grip with the Men of the North never did get anywhere and I'm confused now as when I started. If Wikipedia is having a slooooow day, you can sometimes see old versions of pages. Just one of those things. Technologically it's all very Heath-Robinson. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I added a link on the Irish Annals page to Dr Dan McCarthy's 'Chronology of the Irish Annals' website, which is a marvellous study. A little gold padlock appears after the link: what does this mean?
--Henrywgc 00:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- Only that the URL for the site starts with https:// (secure http connection) rather than http:// (ordinary http connection). The practical differences are not very large. If you change the https to http, the padlock icon will (?probably) disappear but you will still end up at the secure http connection all the same if you click the link because that's how the TCD guys have set things up. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
