Talk:Hillel the Elder
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17:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)85.250.190.197
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If we don't know the exact range of dates when Hillel lived, we should at least say something more helpful than "in the time of King Herod", which could refer to any of several kings of that name. --Jim Henry 17:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
BTW, from the article: That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest (is commentary, the explanation); go and study it. (Babylonian Talmud, tractate Shabbat 31a. See the ethic of reciprocity or "The Golden rule") Well, that's partly true. Hillel's rule seems that it would more accurately be described as the Silver Rule, which is the converse of the Golden Rule. The Golden Rule says "*Do* unto others as you want them to do to you", the Silver Rule says "*Don't* do unto others as you wouldn't want them to do to you" -- one is prescriptive, the other is restrictive. However, I'm not confident enough to make a change to the article in this regard on my own -- I would rather discuss it here first. --HanClinto 17:22, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
- Personally I've heard both forms attributed as "the golden rule". IMHO, one of the things that makes the golden rule so "golden" is it's universal applicability and countless sources. (See the wikipedia page on Ethic of reciprocity for some of the rather varied and diverse places it can be found in form or another). I don't think there is any specific standard for the golden rule, but rather the ethic underlying it, and many ways of expressing that ethic, all of which can be referred to as the golden rule. --Bachrach44 16:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
The positive assertion of the golden rule, which post-dates the Hillel quote is more appropriately considered the silver rule. I agree that there is a great difference. The passivistic Hillel approach admonishes wrong-doing while the more Christian approach commends intervention. The positivistic approach compels action, the negative or neutral Hillel approach prohibits action. They both require one to avoid wrong-doing, but the postivistic command then goes further to compel "good deeds". This can be interpreted either as a good thing in that it promotes the "good samaritan" approach to loving thy neighbor or as a bad thing if your idea of what is good differs from thy neighbor. No western country has adopted a "good samaritan" law precicely because we do not feel that intervention should be compelled. The negative approach considers that and accomodates it. That is why, in my opinion, it rings more true than the later "golden rule."
DHC comments. It has not been made sufficiently clear what is the difference between the original version of the Rule and Hillels version. The original rule calls for almost saintly behavour between people living in close proximity. Whilst there are doubts as to the practically of this, the fact that it is not at all easy to love somebody from a great distance means that in this for the rule applies to ones neighbor rather than to ones fellow citizen.
However when one looks at Hillel's version or corrolory, namely not to do harm, the application can be a lot more wide-spread and still be very practical. Thus by avoiding the use of petreoleum combustion and CO2 emmissions one is helping the whole world, not just oneself or the surrounding community. This is not a possible effect if only the positive version of the rule were being followed. Thus Hillel's version is both more practical and also far more general. It applies to business ethics in a macroeconomic setting and (for example) would stop a person from holding land out of use for purposes of speculation, because in so doing he causes the competition to use the rest of the land to raise land prices and the its rent (ground-rent). Thus by the universal adoption Hillel's version of the rule there would be less poverty and unemployment.
The original version of the rule implies the need for giving charity. This when attempted on a national scale results in socialism and the welfare state. There are srtrong religious overtones to both of these views, which deserve attention in another artical.
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- Shouldn't the Seven Rules of Hillel (of Biblical literary interpretation) be at least mentioned in the article? I have a link to a website where they can be found. The Seven Rules of Hillel TurtleofXanth 16:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Tomb
I know it's odd to make a citation request in a photo's caption, but there doesn't seem to be mention of Hillel's tomb anywhere in the article. Where is the tomb? If the tomb location is known, when was it discovered? If it was always known and can be verified, how was this done? Is there any debate over the authenticity of the tomb? The image is unsourced, and the uploader claimed to be the creator of the image, so we really don't have much background info here.
