Talk:Hip hop

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Contents 1 Photoshopped 2 Fifth Element 3 Redirect or disambig 4 what we should do 5 politics and culture 6 Legacy of Hip Hop/"Paradox that hip-hop artists fail to face" paragraph 7 chinese version 8 Video Links 9 Latinos in Hip Hop 10 Vandalism 11 Cleanup/Footnotes 12 redunancy 13 Hip Hop is a Culture 14 The 4 elements of Hip Hop (Original) 15 Hip Hop/Hip Hop Music

[edit] Photoshopped

It's pretty obvious that the picture of the "aerial freeze" on the streets of Paris is photoshopped. Someone ought to replace it, because it looks pretty stupid.

[edit] Fifth Element

I think this page should include at least a mention of beatboxing, the so-called "fifth element" of hip hop. Your thoughts?

It would be good to mention it, as part of hip hop music (and maybe not as the "fifth element".) Wipe 03:19, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of beatboxing being referred to as a fifth element of hip-hop; as such, I've only seen it classified as part of MCing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.36.9.69 (talk) 01:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Redirect or disambig

OK, right now this page has about 1000 links coming into it (not counting User and Talk pages). A few months ago (Jan-2006) Hip hop, which was a redirect to Hip hop culture, got turned into a disambiguation page[1] -- but no one updated any of the links to this page. 1000 links is far too many to disambiguate by hand (and new ones are constantly being added) so I suggest this page either be changed back into the redirect, or expanded into an article with sections that briefly cover each area and "Main article" links (which is actually what Hip hop culture already appears to be). Ewlyahoocom 04:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you. I say we move hip hop to hip hop (disambiguation) and make hip hop redirect to hip hop culture. Hip hop (disambiguation) will thus become a simple list of what hip hop can refer to while hip hop culture (and hip hop redirecting to it) will explain the full cultural phenomenon and summaries of its many elements, like you say. Wintran 13:38, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

There are also many links refering to Hip-hop music. Most of these come from album pages, specifically the album infobox. Maybe a bot could quickly convert those hip-hop music? Gflores^Talk 05:30, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Convert them to hip hop music, you mean?--Urthogie 09:14, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

By far, the most common meaning of "Hip hop" is hip hop music - if we were going to redirect that would be the place. 1000 links can be done by hand (well I am doing it robot assisted now). We did 5000 links to American by hand. The number of incoming links should not be a consideration. But anyway, I do support a mini article being written here, encapsulating the important terms. This really isn't a dab page, since all the entries are about the same thing.--Commander Keane 10:58, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Good points. The thing is, hip hop music is part of hip hop culture.--Urthogie 11:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I think this page should redirect to hip hop music, but I agree with Commander Keane that this page should have/be a mini article Ted87 22:18, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what we should do

People call hip hop music "hip hop". It should be moved to hip hop (music), and hip hop culture should just be "hip hop".--Urthogie 18:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, these days the concept of hip hop culture takes a backseat to the actual hip-hop music. Nobody grafs anymore, people don't competition break, and the DJ culture is completely removed from the essence of hip-hop. Hip-hop's primary driving force is its music. The culture is the archaic, historical counterpart to the music that is arguably no longer relevant. MOD 16:24, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I still think we should call hip hop music hip hop (music), as thats what people call it. You have a point about culture, but what about that move?--Urthogie 17:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree that the other aspects of hip hop culture are disappearing. It's true that hip hop's primary driving force has always been music, so it's definitely a central element of hip hop. However, from the beginning until now its practicioners have always been saying that "hip hop is more than just music", and many believe that this concept is the heart of hip hop. The commercialization of hip hop has concentrated on the music, which has given it much attention in the media, but this doesn't mean that other elements are practiced any less just because they're not seen in the news. For example, I believe that breaking and hip hop dances in general are more active and evolving than ever, only becoming more and more international with many competitions and events spread around the world today.

I agree with Urthogie that hip hop music should be moved to hip hop (music) (maybe this should be discussed at Talk:hip hop music as well?) but I'm not sure about the proposal of moving hip hop culture to hip hop. Currently, I'm 50/50 for performing the move or keeping it the way it is. However, I'm against redirecting hip hop to hip hop music for the reasons explained above.

Wintran 19:13, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Its "practitioners?" As in the delirious and aging KRS-ONE? Who else? Young Jeezy, who excuses his lack of ability to rap as a movement? Don't get it twisted, rap has always been about music. Breaking and hip-hop dances are GONE. The most you see is some video on MTV. They're not an integral part anymore, and neither are the supposed nine pillars or so of hip-hop. Hip-hop is about music, hip-hop culture is secondary, that's it. Would rock music take a backseat to political activism and social trends? I don't think so. MOD 11:50, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

None of this is true, by the way. Breakdancing as an active practice and competitive activity is alive and very well. --FuriousFreddy 05:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I was the one to originally have hip hop culture moved from this namespace to its current one, so that this would be a disambiguation page. Editors and readers ambiguously use "hip-hop" to define both the culture and the music, and the purpose of a disambiguation page is to (a) allow for users to find the correct page they are looking for and (b) allowed editors to realize that linking to just "hip-hop" won't work. No article needs to be moved anyplace ("Hip hop (music)" makes less sense than "hip hop music", especially since Wikipedia has "soul music" and "rock music", not "soul (music)" and "rock (music)"). --FuriousFreddy 05:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] politics and culture

First off I agree this should be a redirect to "hiphop culture. Second hiphop is not a political movement, even if some members have political views etc. So, i replaced "political" by "cultural" and added a link to hiphop culture page.

On a side note: you need a source on the "global media conglomerates" statement.(who are those guys anyway?)

-non-member of wikiland.august 30 2006, 11:25pm

[edit] Legacy of Hip Hop/"Paradox that hip-hop artists fail to face" paragraph

Without even getting into whether or not I agree with it, this paragraph may lean a little to far towards full-blown opinion. Is there any consensus on whether or not it belongs in this article? -Robotam 18:47, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

• I agree, this paragraph is definitely not NPOV. Theroachman 23:49, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, I edited this to try to clean up and create a more neutral POV for this article. I respect everyone's writing and opinions (notwithstanding the vandals), but this is not an opinion piece. I did try to get the general POV's that were discussed into the article, however. -Robotam 16:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] chinese version

i've linked to a Chinese version, but that is in reality a translation-in-progress of the Hip hop culture article.

good work; consider creating an account and/or signing your comments (you can sign your name on any page by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~~~~) so we'll know it is you! thanx,-Robotam 16:21, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Video Links

The links to various video websites present various copyright and WP issues, such as spurious links. See WP:EL for a full discussion. thanks! -Robotam 14:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latinos in Hip Hop

Not sure why anyone would want to dispute this, but we are all ears.-Robotam 14:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

The Hip Hop page has been vandalized.64.219.79.212 01:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed. I reverted back to the page before the user with the IP 81.231.149.62 vandalized it. --esanchez, Camp Lazlo fan! 01:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup/Footnotes

OK, I did some cleanup and added some secondary refs, although i cannot do footnotes right now. We do need to wikify this article in earnest, footnotes and all.-Robotam 15:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] redunancy

It seems reaonable to say we're just confusing ourselves and others by having hip hop, hip hop culture, and hip hop music. All there is hip hop culture and the music that came from that culture. Having a third hip hop page doesn't make sense. Let's redirect to a disambiguation that explains this.--Urthogie 17:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I saw your comments above, and all are valid. I would support merging the three into one article, "Hip Hop," with "culture" and "music" shortened into sub-sections added to "history" and "legacy," as long as the effort is made to cite. I think that would go a long way towards FA status, based on the interest that has been generated in Hip Hop by cleaning it up and editing it in a more serious, scholarly manner. It still needs lots of work, but it is a start.-Robotam 18:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hip Hop is a Culture

"Rap is something we do. Hip hop is something we live!" KRS-One

Rap is not hip hop and cannot be uses as a synonym.
Hip Hop is not a musical genre, it is a culture.
Hip Hop is not a style of dance
Jorelnetworks 17:30, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The 4 elements of Hip Hop (Original)

MC'n: Rapping
B-Boy'n :Breakdancing
Grafitti :Spray can art
DJ'n :Turntablist, music using 2 phonograph turntables, mixing & scratching
Jorelnetworks 17:30, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hip Hop/Hip Hop Music

Why is there an article for Hip Hop (this article) and one for Hip hop music? Maybe I'm just a white metal head but i don't really see the difference....? Violask81976 01:04, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Hip hop is a cultural movement that includes music, dance, visual art, and other stuff. Tlogmer ( talk / contributions ) 04:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)