Talk:Hugs and Kisses
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Not sure where this should be merged... anyone? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Syynapse (talk • contribs) 00:36, October 6, 2004.
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[edit] Jewish practice?
"Another thought is that it came from Jewish immigrants who would sign with an "O" instead of an x because they did not wish to mark their word with the obviously non-Jewish cross the x represented."
Is there any evidence of this hypothesis? Like documents that Jews signed with an "O"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.202.73.187 (talk • contribs) 21:41, April 6, 2005.
- I doubt this hypothesis too - I come from the lubelskie region of Poland, where Jews and Christians have cohabited for centuries and the term "XOXO" is unknown here. I myself have checked it in Wikipedia because I didn't know what it meant and thought it was a part of leetspeak. Also, I've heard that literacy was quite common among Jews - I think there was some religious dictation to learn kids to read and write. Therefore the need to sign documents with "O" would be much more scarce. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.48.33.248 (talk • contribs) 06:13, September 17, 2006.
The "Another thought..." part is within the paragraph about possible speculation - is it not clear that this is also an unproven theory? If not, then perhaps and edit is in order.
Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Syynapse (talk • contribs) 23:16, May 31, 2005.
- Even if it was true, that jews signed documents with an "O", what would this mean for the "XOXO"-thing? I don't see the connection between this "O" and a hug. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.168.192.11 (talk • contribs) 14:17, March 6, 2007.
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- Well, until some kind of verifiable source is found, let's keep it out of the article. -- Emana 21:59, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Alt meaning?
I always thought XOXO meant "love and kisses", but I'm just a guy, and guys like to think those things. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.215.136.34 (talk • contribs) 12:50, May 15, 2006.
[edit] order of explanations
If it is true that the second of these two explanations...
It is debatable which letter represents which act. Some interpret X as the crossed arms of a hug and O as the puckered lips of a kiss. However, the interpretation assumed in the following, in which X represents the four lips of a kiss and O the four arms of a hug, is more common.
is more common, than I think it should be the first one listed. Followed by the less accepted variation.
I say this only because this came up today, and as I read the article you think the conclusion has been reached (X - hug, O - kiss) in the first sentence. I almost didn't read on.
Considering I see no sources anywhere, though, I'm not going to actually edit the article. Shy 02:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sources
How do you know that it is more common one way or the other? Are there published polls or something? It seems silly, but I had never heard it the 'more common way' until now when my girlfriend and I were argueing about it, but my she has only heard it the more 'common way.' So I would like to see some sort of source or something to why its more common one way or the other. (Because I'm a guy and I don't like to be proven wrong :-P) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.233.133.161 (talk • contribs) 21:53, May 31, 2006.
[edit] pronunciation
is it pronounced at all or just reads 'hugs n kisses'? my native is greek and the writing of it in english seems a bit funny to me since writing in greek 'xoxo' would be a silly word sounding 'hohoh!' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.1.132.11 (talk • contribs) 18:06, August 30, 2006.
[edit] Origin
The disambiguation page for 'XO' reads as follows: "Xo is well known for being short for Xoán, which is where the expression XoXo comes from (meaning hugs and kisses) as Xoán is Galician for seducer of women." Is this valid, and should it be included here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.157.192.238 (talk • contribs) .
- I can find nothing to support such an assertion, so it would appear to be a joke. I have removed it from that page again and asked for a cite. Of course, he's added the same odd statement there many times without providing a source, so I'm not really expecting anything from him/her. Kuru talk 02:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
It was probably chosen for the same reason that we chose to use Xs and Os for Tic-Tac-Toe and also why teachers mark tests with Xs and Os... although many American teachers like to use the check mark. How about this, if X is "sealed" then would O be "opened"? I wonder if there are other uses where X and O mean opposite ends. -- Emana 22:44, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] OED not current on this??
I have always thought that X's are hugs and O's are kisses (not the other way around). For years I've seen platonic friends (including brothers) sign emails to each other with "XX", and lovers sign "XOXO," until they break up when it reverts back to "XX". In general the OED is definitive, and it clearly says "X" is kiss. But I'm not so sure, in this case. Note that the OED does not include "hug" as a definition for "O"! So it's not quite as clear as it seems. My guess is that "XOXO" for hugs AND kisses is an Americanization, with much increase of use in the Internet age. This may have changed the original usage, and not yet been reflected in the OED (as with much American slang and idiom -- e.g., 'ho.). For those without access, here's the full OED entry on "X" as kiss: >>> 6. Used to represent a kiss, esp. in the subscription to a letter. Dates: 1763, 1894, 1951, 1953, 1982 1763 G. WHITE Lett. (1901) I. vii. 132, I am with many a xxxxxxx and many a Pater noster and Ave Maria, Gil. White. 1894 W. S. CHURCHILL Let. 14 Mar. in R. S. Churchill Winston S. Churchill I. Compan. I. (1967) vii. 456 Please excuse bad writing as I am in an awful hurry. (Many kisses.) xxx WSC. 1951 S. PLATH Let. 7 July (1975) I. 72 Some gal by the name of Sylvia Plath sure has something{em}but who is she anyhow?..x x Sivvy. 1953 DYLAN THOMAS Under Milk Wood (1954) 41 Yours for ever. Then twenty-one X's. 1982 C. FREMLIN Parasite Person vi. 40 A row of ‘X's’, hurried kisses, all he had time to scribble. <<<
Again, the OED has no related definition for "O", or "XO," or "XOXO". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.159.236.200 (talk • contribs) 01:22, March 2, 2007.
The other arguments offered as to why "X" stands for kiss seem weak to me. (No offense meant, just my reaction.) E.g., pronunciation?? You've gotta be kidding. :-) In fact, "X" sounds more like "eggs" which is more like "hugs" (esp. w/ non-aspirated "h"). There is a children's riddle, "FUNEX? S,IFX. FUNEM? S,IFM. OK,LFMNX." -- which stands for: "'ave you any eggs? Yes, I have eggs. 'Ave you any ham? Yes, I have ham. OK, I'll have ham and eggs." By contrast, when you say "O" what do your lips do? They form a kiss! To suggest that "O sounds like hold, as in I hold you" -- vs. "I hug you" strikes me as a really thin argument. In fact, someone should cut that paragraph (or add from this one).
Until someone provides more definitive origins on X's and O's, or an authentic poll on usage, I suggest this article conclude that the symbolism is used differently by different people, and not take one side or the other.
Signing with an "X" for the illiterate seems to have no connection to hugs or kisses. What is the documentation/citation/reference for "kissing the X at the end of a letter as a seal of honesty"??? I've never heard of that.
Agreed that the "Jewish immigrants = O" should be cut (or referenced). 216.159.236.200 07:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
