Talk:Hypothyroidism

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Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit comments - comment history - watch comments · refresh this page) 86.146.15.86 07:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)I have been taking thyroxine to address hypothyroidism, having stated on a 25Mg dosage and recently increased over time to a miximum of 125 Mg by my UK physician (GP). On a recent trip to the States, I had my bloodwork examined by a specialist who prescribed what in America they refer to as "Armor" (triiodine....). I had read on the internet that a cocktail of both this Armor and thyroxine can improve the treatment and I wanted to see if there could be an improvement to my treatment since, despite the upped dosages of throxine I can still experienced many of the classic symptoms: weight gain, dryness of skin, memory loss, slight loss of balance, general tiredness. I only took the Armor for about three weeks and when I returned to the UK found that where before the upped doage to 125Mg I had a reading of TSH of 9, it had dramtically dropped to well below the acceptable range (proactically zero)...in just three weeks. So my doctor recommended I immediately quit taking the Armor and put me back on thyroxine at 100 Mg. I'm confused and don't know what to do. I realize I cannot expect to be treated on this site; just wondering how you view this. Thanks much, David 86.146.15.86 07:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

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Is Wilson's syndrome an important topic to discuss?

[1]

No. Why on earth are you posting this here and not on Wilson's disease? JFW | T@lk 03:52, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Our querent has apparently happened on a web site that sells drugs for something they've termed "Wilson's Thyroid Syndrome" (which seems to be named after "E. Denis Wilson, MD", who owns the web page. Unfortunately, as you and I know, that's not the accepted name for anything, and is likely to be confused with both "Wilson's disease" (to which there is not even a purported relation) and with hypothyroidism...from reading the website, it isn't even what would normally be called "sick euthyroid syndrome" or "subclinical hypothyroidism" - it's a disease "discovered" by Dr. Wilson, who says that "most doctors" don't "know about" it "yet", and who says it must be treated according to his "naturopathic" doctrines...and with his medicines only. [2] So I'd agree that the answer is, no, it's not a syndrome that is established in the medical literature, and we therefore needn't be discussing it. - Nunh-huh 04:09, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Fluoride poisoning? 2 Myxoedema 3 Primary and secondary 4 Sources 5 Subclinical hypothyroidism 6 Actually 7 Fluoride and Herbal remedies 8 Request for comment: fluoride and hypothyroidism

[edit] Fluoride poisoning?

The analogy of fluoride poisoning with hypothyroidism is weak. The external link goes to an advocacy group: Parents of Fluoride Poisoned Children. The 'scientific evidence' provided by the website is very poor. Here is one example: PFPC claims a link between fluoride poisoning and multiple sclerosis. PFPC refers to the paper 'Neurotoxicity of sodium fluoride in rats' by PJ Mullenix in 'Neurotoxicology & Teratology' Journal. Mullenix's paper is valid and rigorous. However Mullenix makes no comparison to any specific human disease. MS was not mentioned at all.

This link was added by anonymous user 24.202.242.119 After reviewing the user's edits, it is apparent that he/she has a preoccupation with fluoride. Axl 17:47, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Myxoedema

I can't find the definition or the peculiar signs which define the mixoedema in this article. The redirection is obviously wrong, but during those days of cleaning, I'm not going to write something which will be "mercilesssly deleted".

NEW COMMENT

• Someone undo the redirection from "Myxoedema" please*

Or at least teach me how to do it.

Myxoedema refers to the skin and tissue disorder usually due to hypothyroidism. It is NOT one and the same as Hypothyroidism. I can do up a page on it if someone would just unlink it or teach me how to do it thanks.

--Mkmk

Hi Mkmk!

To answer your question: you can edit the Myxoedema page by typing "Myxoedema" into the search box (which currently redirects you here). Then look for the text under the title "Hypothyroidism" and under the phrase "from wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" -- which says "(redirected from Myxoedema)". Click on the word 'myxoedema' (it's a link to the actual myxoedema page, it should not redirect you back to this page). You can then edit that page like you would any other page, and get rid of the #REDIRECT tag you'll find when you edit it for the first time. By the way, you can sign your name and the date and time with four tildes. J Lorraine 13:10, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

thanks! --Mkmk

Quote from American Thyroid Association Hypothyroidism Booklet "myxedema: severe hypothyroidism; the brain, heart, lungs, kidneys, and other organs slow to the point that they cannot keep up critical functions like maintaining temperature, heart rate, blood pressure, and breathing myxedema coma: often-fatal unconsciousness resulting from severe hypothyroidism "

Is Myxedema Severe Hypothyroidism or just a result?

[edit] Primary and secondary

Does anyone think it's worth mentioning primary and secondary hypothyroidism? Primary being due to gland dysfunction and secondary due to decreased drive from TSH? Evilhypnotist 20:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

Maybe I'm missing them, but I'm not seeing many(or any) sources cited on this article; at least the sources I do see contain very little in terms of all of the total content on the article. Smeggysmeg 01:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

"Stop the Thyroid madness" does not have the appearance of a WP:RS WP:EL compliant source. I removed it. Midgley 11:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subclinical hypothyroidism

Subclinical hypothyroidism gives a modest increase in cardiovascular risk[3]. JFW | T@lk 17:40, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Actually

The most common cause of hypothyroidism is Atrophic (autoimmune) hypothyroidism and not Hashimoto's thyroiditis. While both are associated with thyorid microsomal antibodies, they are not the same.

The article should probably mention iodine deficiency and dyshormonogenesis as a cause too.

Wow that's interesting. I've heard of the possible difference between atrophic and goitrous autoimmune hypothyroidism, but I didn't know the atrophic version is more common. Do you know where I could find a reference? I appear to suffer from the atrophic version. --GrimRC 86.4.58.252 17:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I am new at this but here goes... (Endocrinology: An Integrated Approach was the text I used...)

The most common causes of hypothyroidism is autoimmunity. T-cell mediated actions destroy thyroid gland and disrupt certain, or all, function. Hashimoto's disease is one characterized means of autoimmune thyroid disruption.

Secondary hypothyroidism often results from damage to the hypothalamic-pituitary axis, which interfers with thyroid hormone production or action.

Thyroid hormone is normally released by follicles within the thyroid gland. The formation of hormone is dependant upon the addition of four iodine molecules. The follicles sequester about ninety days worth of iodine for this purpose, but long-term iodine deficiency, beyond follicle stores, is life-threatening.

The World Health Organization (WHO) recognized that ~30% of the world's population was at risk for such iodine deficiency. Efforts to include iodized salt into populations at risk have had great success.

[edit] Fluoride and Herbal remedies

I removed the unsourced claim that consuming fluoride causes hypothyroidism. I can't find any claims to this effect other than from anti-fluoride conspiracy theorists. A website devoted to denouncing fluoride is a biased source. If fluoride really causes hypothyroidism, how come this isn't mentioned in the 25 page booklet published by the American Thyroid Association? They don't use the word fluoride once.

Also, while iodine deficiency is apparently a leading cause of hypothyroidism in developing countries, in developed countries where iodized salt is readily available this isn't a problem. In fact, the American Thyroid Association notes that taking excess iodine can actually make the codition worse.

I also edited the "Possible Cures" section, which I renamed "Treatment". Previously it appeared to be spam for a particular herbal remedy. The American Thyroid Association (which represents professional thyroid researchers and physicians) states that herbal remedies are ineffective. -- Tim314 16:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

REPLY, Change it to say that there is controversy about this claim or that this is only claimed by anti-flouride groups. Do that at least, don't remove it completely. Would you like me to delete the other stuff saying that it is from a biased source which is the government? Anyway I'm putting it back in. IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE IT, CHANGE IT SO SAY THAT THE AMERICAN THYROID ASSOCIATION DOESN'T BACK THE CLAIM! DO NOT REMOVE THE VIEW POINT COMPLETELY. AntiLiberal2 04:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

If there is a source for the claims about fluoride and hypothyroidism, please give it. Rosemary Amey 23:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't do any good. The person above deleted it because they said that all studies that support it are from biased sources. If source that has a study about this they say that it's biased and ignore it, because they say that it's an "antifluoride" or a "conspiracy site" and refuse to accept it. Anyway I'm going to say that certian sources like antifluoride groups claim that fluoride is the main cause of this. You can't argue with that. AntiLiberal2 04:49, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the claims about fluoride causing hypothyroidism are notable enough to be included in this article. See WP:N. If we start including every fringe theory, then we would have to add urine therapy, homeopathy, accupuncture, etc etc to this page, which I think would be ridiculous. Also, please see WP:RS for what constitutes a reliable source. Rosemary Amey 05:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that it's true, really it should be the main point in the article, but I'm being nice. French doctors did prescribe Sodium Fluoride to treat over active thyroid. People today are exposed to fluoride levels higher than the doctors prescribed. It's so simple, how can you not get this? AntiLiberal2 00:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If it's true, I would certainly want to know about it, as I suffer from hypothyroidism myself, but you still have not given a reference! Rosemary Amey 00:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

What about all the other stuff that doesn't have a source? Somebody just put it there as if it's common knowledge? Anyway, there are quite a few people with string anti-fluoride beliefs and it is worth mentioning on wikipedia! AntiLiberal2 01:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for comment: fluoride and hypothyroidism

This is a dispute about whether claims that fluoride causes hypothyroidism should be included in the hypothyroidism article. 02:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Statements by editors previously involved in dispute

• Although some anti-fluoride activists claim that fluoride causes hypothyroidism, this is a fringe theory which is not notable enough to merit inclusion on this page. No one has given a reliable source for the anti-fluoride claims. Rosemary Amey 02:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• So basically only sources that are from the government or the established medical system are qualified for wikipedia? I see that you searched PubMed. Had you searched google for the same thing you would have found maybe even hundreds of papers and possible many studies that support the claim that I presented. AntiLiberal2 04:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• • But do any of these googled sites constitute WP:Reliable sources ? David Ruben ^Talk 10:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Comments

• I'ld be a bit kinder and state trivial un-notable theory, as the provided link to campaigning site does in itself cite real research. The problem is one of over interpretation of the research results and linking ideas not then supported by external 3rd party research. One of the links itself cited numerous studies showing no effect of fluoride on thyroid function where iodine levels are normal, but possibly some effect in Himalyas when iodine deficiency was occuring. This though does not support hypothyroidism occuring in the UK where all salt has been supplemented for many years with iodine, thus laergely preventing iodine-deficiency, yet we still see cases of hypothyroidism

  A search of PubMed for "hypothyroide fluroride" keywords gives 22 hits, of which just 4 seem direct research suspecting such a link, and the last of these was printed 21 years ago - hardly a topic of current interest:

  • Bachinskiĭ P, Gutsalenko O, Naryzhniuk N, Sidora V, Shliakhta A (1985). "[Action of the body fluorine of healthy persons and thyroidopathy patients on the function of hypophyseal-thyroid the system]". Probl Endokrinol (Mosk) 31 (6): 25-9. PMID 4088985. 
  • Börner W, Eichner R, Henschler D, Moll E, Ruppert G (1980). "[Pharmacokinetics of fluorides in thyroid dysfunctions. The plasma fluoride concentration after oral administration of 40 mg of NaF in delayed and nondelayed form depending on the thyroid function]". Fortschr Med 98 (28): 1083-6. PMID 7419155. 
  • Hillman D, Bolenbaugh D, Convey E (1979). "Hypothyroidism and anemia related to fluoride in dairy cattle". J Dairy Sci 62 (3): 416-23. PMID 447892. 
  • Strubelt O, Bargfeld D (1973). "[Toxicology of drinking water fluoridation]". Dtsch Med Wochenschr 98 (15): 778-83. PMID 4266645. 

  I did see in the search though one paper that for endemic "Chronic fluoride toxicity in the form of osteo-dental fluorosis was observed in cattle, buffaloes, sheep and goats from 21 villages of Banswara, Dungarpur and Udaipur districts of Southern Rajasthan where the mean fluoride concentration in drinking water varied from 1.5 to 4.0 ppm" found "None of the fluorotic hibited any apparent evidence of hypothyroidism, stunted growth or low milk production" - Choubisa S (1999). "Some observations on endemic fluorosis in domestic animals in Southern Rajasthan (India)". Vet Res Commun 23 (7): 457-65. PMID 10598076. 

  I think if fluoride and thyroid must be mentioned, then perhaps as part of arguements in Water fluoridation controversy, but this is really a trivial viewpoint (thus not requiring mention under WP:NPOV) as far as human clinical hypothyroidism is concerned (no biomedical research paper in last 21 years).

  Remember as Wikipedia:Fringe theories content guidence states: "The discussion of a non-mainstream theory, positively or negatively, by other non-mainstream groups or individuals is not a criterion for notability, even if the latter group or individual is itself notable enough for a Wikipedia article. If a non-mainstream theory is so unnotable that mainstream sources have not bothered to comment on it, disparage it, or discuss it, it is not notable enough for Wikipedia.". Surely teh absence of any PubMed abstracted paper in last 21 years counts as "not bothered to comment on it, disparage it, or discuss it" ? David Ruben ^Talk 03:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• You're saying that a study that is 22 years old is no longer any good??? Fluoride is still fluoride, and people are still people. Has there been a change in human beings or chemical properties in the last 22 years? AntiLiberal2 22:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• No, the study was the study, but the 2 dacades of no further research indicates not "a topic of current interest" and thus not seeming to be a concept thought worthy of ongoing research. David Ruben ^Talk 04:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

• A 20yo study could be as good (or better, or worse) than a current year study. If there is no new evidence showing that those studies were flawed, the age of those studies is totally irrelevant. Just an example: Pasteur#Germ_theory. That experiment was made in the 19th century, but it is still cited.Randroide 09:36, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

• comment -The studies should be mentioned, but it should be clear how old they are and they should not be given undue importance. futurebird 19:10, 31 January 2007 (UTC)