Talk:Iblis
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Deleted the initial comments made here, as it seems to be a case of vandalism. --Mitsukai 15:10, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This article seems kinda supicious. It staes that Iblis is a Jinn, while the rather more substantial Shaitan article says that he was an angel. Not knowing anything of these things beyond what I've read here, I've left this alone. --Kizor 04:45, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] On the origin of Iblis
Quran does not mention in any place that Iblis, the prime Shaitan, is an angel. It rather mentions in one place that he was a Jinni, and there are two references for Iblis being created from fire. Moreover, where the origin of angels and jinn is tackled it asserts that Jinn are made of fire and angels of light. There is no reference to an angel made of fire.
shaitan is the name of one of the kind of Shayatin شياطين; From one side it's much like man and Man, and at the same time it is an adjective that can apply to Men and Jinn, as per Quran to indicate those astray and evil inspiring persons, where in Arabic culture, Jinn, just like Men where a nation أمة who had among them the good and the bad. Iblis' is the personal capital name of the one Shaitan who is mentioned in the Islamic genesis, and whose origin is, again, not clear. --Alif 18:57, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
Iblis was not banished to earth for tempting Adam and Eve but rather for refusing to bow before Adam as he was created from clay, not fire as Iblis was. An interpretation by the Sufi mystic Mansur al-Hallaj holds that God was issuing a test and that he was the only one that passed this test as he was the only one who refused to bow before Adam. Iblis had faith in absolute monotheism and thus would not bow before anyone but God Himself. Iblis was so close to God he had achieved fana (annihilation of the self) and had become one with God so it was really God refusing to bow as Iblis no longer had self control. This is why al-Hallaj deemed Iblis an ideal model for Sufi Muslims, though this is just one interpretation.
[edit] Possible Connection to Final Fantasy Tactics Mythology
Elidibs (also Elidibus from FFXII) is perhaps a mis-spelling of Iblis supposedly and is the name of the 13th Lucavi (Demons in the Final Fantasy World), who happens to summon the ultimate summon in the game known as Zodiac who appears to have 4 Demonic and 4 Angelic Wings and also has something of a Red Fire around it.
as an after thought: to say that iblis is the perpitrator of all evil is a falacy if the quran is understood deeper. it says in sura 14:22 that on the day of judgement iblis will betray all who were seduced by him saying "i deny your act of associating me with allah; you believed that i was a rival to god, not me. so blame yourself" it is made amply clear that iblis is an agent of god, not a rival. reference to the devil testing devouts are found in the bible too: ref. book of job: here we see that lucifer does all he can to job, but refrains from doing what god tell him not to do. strange obedience offered by one who is supposed to be at loggerheads with god. jewish traditions relate that god told abharam to offer his son as sacrifice at the behest of satan... one wonders if this is a most secret partnership between the two to test the humans?
- In Job, we also have the image of Satan as the apparent Tempter by Appointment to the Divine Court: at the beginning of the book, Satan is in heaven and God is asking him what he's been up to. "And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it"
- Although why God would even bother to make a creature whose only purpose was to drive mankind away from Him, has never been satisfactorily explained. If Satan can spend all of time being evil and not being punished for it, why can't we?
- Nuttyskin 05:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Removed inappropriate text
The following sentence was in the article at the end of the Etymology section:
- "This whole above article on Iblis needs major rewrite. Is satan a proper noun or a noun?"
The talk page is the proper place for such a comment, not the article itself. —CKA3KA (Skazka) 21:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Is Iblis Allah's enemy?
"The Qur'an depicts Iblis as the enemy of Allah, for Allah is supreme over all his creations and Iblis is just one of his creations. Unlike the Zoroastrian beliefs, all good and bad deeds are from Allah himself and only He can save humanity from the evils of His universe and His creations. Iblis' single enemy is humanity. He intends to discourage humans from obeying God."
This paragraph sounds paradox to me. On the one hand "Iblis is Allah's enemy", on the other hand "Iblis' single enemy is humanity." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.82.106.152 (talk) 11:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC).
Quite simply Allah has no opponent. Allah is the creator of all that is good and he may permit things that are bad but he didn't create them. Iblis can be an enemy though, sense he goes against Allah.
