Talk:Independence Day (United States)
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I've moved this article because:
- Fourth of July is a nickname, and is not country-specific. (It should remain as a simple redirect until we find another July 4 event worth disambiguating.)
- The official name of the holiday is Independence Day
- The parens strictly identify it as the American In. Day
- It makes Independence Day a standard disambiguation page, which is a Good Thing.
It also gives me warm feelings to think of all those Independence Days lined up in a row. :-)
Somercet 04:48, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)
- Disambiguated titles are icky. We use common names whenever possible, and Fourth of July is common. It's clearly different from July 4 since wikipedia date pages are standardized. --Jiang 20:04, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
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- Well, it's now moot, as another Wikipedian has created another sort for the holidays. I think using the full country name rather than the two-letter country code is bulky, but... Somercet 05:57, Nov 6, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] colorful little anecdotes
Should this article really include nathan's hot dog eating contest? It's not really a part of any traditional celebrations of July fourth that I know of. My grandpa used to make us waffles on July Fourth, but that's not encyclopedic either. I propose we delete that colorful little anecdote but I wanted to get some concurrence first. MPS 19:00, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- No, this is a big deal in New York City and all over the media. This is a short article and should have more on different celebrations and events through history. I actually wrote a whole section before on 'July 4 in history' which was unfortunately lost due to computer problems.--Pharos 19:12, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Observed by Danes?
Is this vandalism, or something I'm not getting? There's nothing on Holidays in Denmark... Radagast 17:04, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Paid or Unpaid?
Is July 4th a paid or unpaid holiday? An anon changed it, and I decided to rv it. Which one is it? Thanks, Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 22:21, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] WikiProject Holidays
You may be interested in the WikiProject, WikiProject Holidays, a WikiProject that will focus on standardizing articles about Holidays. It has been around for quite some time, but I'm starting it up again, and would like to see some more members around the help out. Cheers. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 21:08, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
Pardon my ignorance, but is Independence Day always celebrated on 4th July, or is it shifted to give people a long weekend? DJ Clayworth 15:51, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
- Both. The fireworks are always July 4, but if it's a weekend, many people get a long weekend anyway. Same for Christmas and New Years, in my American experience. Art LaPella 01:00, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Oldest Celebration?
I have been told the town of Bristol, Rhode Island has been celebrating this continually since 1785.
Sources: The White House, United States, Preserve America http://www.preserveamerica.gov/3-18-04PAcommunity-bristolRI.html
U.S. State Department: http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/holidays/july4/mccabe.htm
This debate has gone on for years and I'm sure we could continue it for years:
http://www.americaslibrary.gov/cgi-bin/page.cgi/es/in/pekin_1
"If anyone can quell doubt it is MarjiAnn Souder, a local historian and, for that matter, a rider in a 1950 Plymouth in Monday's parade."
"Souder realizes the celebration in Bristol, R.I. — three weeks of events — is older. It first was held in 1785. She contends, however, that Bristol's own documents suggest gaps — years, particularly during wartimes, when parading apparently was put off. She has uncovered no such postponements here at home."
"Souder has scoured newspapers and documents, has talked with old-timers and has concluded her community's boast is believable."
"I'm convinced personally that we've never missed one since at least the 1830s," she said.
From http://www.fettes.com/history/ffcinc/Bristol%20Parade.htm:
"From the year 1785 to the present time, the anniversary of American Independence has, with few exceptions, been duly observed by military parades, orations, and public processions."
"Extensive research of public records yields no information for seven years (1827-1833), of names of Chief Marshals or anything else that would indicate there were official town-organized parades. But documentation reveals that, with only few exceptions since 1834, a parade has been part of the Bristol Fourth. Evidence exists to demonstrate that the several years since 1834 when there were no parades, were years when the country was experiencing hard economic times, or when a lack of funds may have been a reason to cancel the official parade. Another exception to the annual parade was in 1881. The elaborate celebration planned for the day was not held because of the shocking assassination of President Garfield. The resulting feeling of respect due the Chief Executive forced the town to cancel that year's festivities."
"Between 1815 and 1850, the Town Council did not always appoint an official committee for arrangements; sometimes, there were non-official celebrations and parades and at other times there were no celebrations. This may seem a contradiction to the statement about an annual observance since 1785; but, patriotic ceremonies with prayers of thanksgiving have always taken place."
Response
The person who is arguing against Bristol as the town with the oldest continuing Fourth of July celebration seems to be forgetting <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPOV">NPOV</a>. The link provided by the Indiana advocate:
The link above is clearly not NPOV. Neither are the quotations that are cited in the above link representing a NPOV. On the other hand, the U.S. State Department and the U.S. White House's Preserve America links can be reasonably accepted as NPOV in this particular matter, and they both recognize Bristol, Rhode Island instead. The person alleging that the U.S. government is mistaken in this matter needs to provide more substantive evidence.
Also, the fettes.com site provided by the advocate of Indiana, links to a small school in Scotland, which sent a band for the Bristol, Rhode Island Fourth of July parade one year in Bristol, Rhode Island's. Fettes is not a recognized authority on the history of the Fourth of July in the United States.
[edit] Modes of celebration
So is that vandalism or what? --Zakharov 01:49, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] United States article on featured candidate nominations list
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States
Cast your vote! The more responses, the more chances the article will improve and maybe pass the nomination. We might just make it pass in time for Fourth of July!--Ryz05 t 17:36, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Why 4th of July
Why is it called the 4th of July, when the custom in the United States is month-day-year; I know it is occasionaly called "July 4th", but this is not the standard. Does anyone know why?
- We do say "the [ordinal] of [month]" in American English although less frequently than "[month] [ordinal]". It's not a special usage just for Independence Day.--Kenji Yamada 06:29, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
- True, but "[month], [ordinal]" is more common, except for the 4th of July it seems. - Matthew238 01:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
- One would think that the more commonly used and uniquely Americian lingo would be used more commonly for the name America's most Important day and that some perticular reason caused 'the [ordinal] of [month]' to take presidance. 83.71.33.42 18:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
- True, but "[month], [ordinal]" is more common, except for the 4th of July it seems. - Matthew238 01:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Template colours
Is it just me or do the blue and white colours in the holidayinfo template box on the right really not work - especially the blue with black writing. I know it's all meant to be representative of the US flag but readibility must come first IMHO. I can't think of decent colours myself - anyone feel like attempting? --202.169.217.132 11:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'd have to agree with you. Edit: Just changed them, should be better now. Thursday Postal 15:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] implicit ones of democracy, liberty, freedom, and equality under the law.
This needs a source, and should be scarequoted. Jefferson would balk at the state current of "democracy" in the United States. Intangible 17:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- What kind of source are we talking about here? I thought every schoolkid knows that the US is all about freedom, democracy, and equality/the rule of law. I know that sounds like an appeal to common sense, but I really do want to know what would suffice as a source. A speech by Bush? a speech by other political leaders? a government website that says that July 4 celebrates certain american values on July 4. What say ye? MPS 14:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] More in "Other notable July 4 events"
Today, for the first time ever, NASA launched a shuttle into orbit on the 4th of July, something that has been all over the news all day. I'm wondering if the section should be ammended to include this, as it is rather notable, seing as how there aren't many launches anymore. Just a thought.--68.6.242.18 00:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] As discussed before, this title should be changed.
Since Wikipedia is for naming pages what they are commonly referred to, this should be changed to The Fourth of July (U.S. Holiday). It may seem neater to refer to it as Independance Day (United States), but since articles are supposed to be named for their most common usage, the apt title would be: The Fourth of July (U.S. Holiday). Almost no one refers to it as Independance Day.
I propose a vote.
I support.
- What are you talking about? The federal holiday on July 4 is designated as Independence Day by the federal government, and calendars say Independence Day.--75.28.163.95 02:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
