Talk:Instinct

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Instinct was the collaboration of the week for the week starting on [[November 13]], [[2005]]. For details on improvements made to the article, see history of past collaborations.

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Does anyone know how an instinct is passed on from generation to generation? What is the physiological mechanism for this to occur?

We know that certain traits are passed on genetically. Are instincts also passed on this way, through the DNA?

For example, how do babies know to look for and suck on the nipple of their mothers? Obviously no one taught them that. Then how do they know?

Have humans found this out yet or not?

Thanks. 202.165.255.18 17:30, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Genes shape the structure of the nervous system. In humans, the structure of the nervous system predisposes us towards certain patterns of behavior. The key issue is how genes form certain patterns of neuronal networks in the brain. Gerald Edelman wrote a book called "Topobiology" that describes the basic mechanisms by which genes control morphogenesis. --Memenen 23:51, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 True Examples of Human Instinct 2 Useful Sources 3 Improper Image Choice 4 This Subject Needs Elaboration 5 NPOV

[edit] True Examples of Human Instinct

There is enormous debate, it seems, between established science and psychologists as to whether instinct in humans actually exists. I am trying to research the subject for an up-and-coming book and need to find some good examples of true human instincts that have survived the passage of time, but which now have little or no real bearing in modern life. If anyone can help with this I will be very grateful, particularly if the theory is backed up with credible research references or published science papers.

Here is the first list of human instincts I found on Google. --Memenen 23:41, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

The line really needs to be drawn between instinct and reflexes. Getting a snakebite and quickly pulling your foot away is a reflex. Picking up a leaf you've never seen in your life and rubbing it against the bite which neutrilizes the poison is instinct.

That sounds more like intuition to me. Clearly this is a matter of hot debate, but the fact we can override certain instincts with intelligence for social reasons (such as mating behaviour or aggressiveness towards an individual we dislike) does not mean those instincts don't exist - just that we suppress them, usually with consequences for our own mental health. Also, I think we need to be careful with accepting psychological theory as the rule for human behaviour - it's a branch of the arts and fundamentally uses statistics and studies and *support* openions, but the field of psychology is still a body of openion at the end of the day. It is not a science with a clear right and wrong. 203.11.72.4 04:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

That book's from 1906! Surely instincts must bear some relation to the definition of what defines an organism: nutrition, excretion, respiration, reproduction, growth, movement, sensitivity (=response to stimuli). I'm not a psychologist, but I do recognise that it's not purely opinion like in history or art criticism; researchers may have prejudices, but experiments still have to be objective even if results are used to support a particular premiss.

What I think the danger is, is that people regard instinct as an emotional thing. It's probably more useful to regard organisms, whether bacteria or human, as agglomerations of chemicals in a physical universe that act and react in unison. We don't expect an atom, or for that matter a protein, to have any particular motivation to sustain itself or reproduce; so for me, I would expect instinct to be based on some irresistable, involuntary reaction (knowing, as I do, that chemical reactions are large scale physical reactions of electrons and other particles). So I propose that instinct may be a chain reaction at a sub-molecular level, that, at a higher level seems like an involuntary response: like swallowing, coughing, sneezing, shivering, breathing, sweating (or farting, in my case!).

[edit] Useful Sources

I just found this source. It appears to be of use. I'm just walking out the door, but I plan on working on the article upon my return. Figured I'd provide you all with this source, since the article is now COTW.

• http://www.sparknotes.com/biology/animalbehavior/instinct/

- Cobra Ky (talk, contribs) 21:47, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Possibly another good source.

• http://spartan.ac.brocku.ca/~lward/Angell/Angell_1906/Angell_1906_p.html

k, i'm out. - Cobra Ky (talk, contribs) 21:53, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Friedrich Nietzsche and his philosophy of the "will to power" may deserve minor inclusion as well. - Cobra Ky (talk, contribs) 21:58, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Improper Image Choice

• While this image is cool and all I don't think it really belongs on this page. Sure nipple sucking is an instinct but this image has way too much else going on and distracts rather than adds to the information Headlouse 01:11, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
• I agree, in fact the image could go on the article for alex grey, considering it dosen't have any at the moment. --Mr. Dude ^{†@£К ║ Çøת†яĭβü†ĬŎИ} 18:24, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
• It is an arresting image, but, as Headlouse said, it's distracting. Joyous | Talk 19:25, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

There's a much calmer image of a breastfeeding baby at breastfeeding. Joyous | Talk 19:31, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, I bit the bullet and made the changes as suggested above. Alex Grey now has a picture and the breastfeeding image is also on instinct. -- 16:41, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] This Subject Needs Elaboration

My interest in instinct lies not with how academics would prefer to categorize certain human behaviors, such as recoiling from a snake, but rather with the poorly explained behavioral predispositions that many animals possess (including a select few human tendencies, such as a documented, innate fear of falling/heights). I cannot do much in the way of improvements myself, but I feel this article is SOREly lacking in breadth.

I also deem the first question of this discussion to be most provocative, as I've been trying to find a way to reconcile Darwin and Larmarck, Baldwin for a while now. I haven't found a comprehensive answer to any of the lingering questions regarding the behavioral tendiencies of an organism that are not learned but seemingly can't possibly have been transferred via genetic material not affected by direct influence of the parent's experience. The teat-suckling may be a poor example of this. A better one may be the rats that become generationally better at solving a maze, a universal fear of predatory species, or certain simians' talents for using tools to obtain food. Studies of a culture of lactose-intolerant E Coli that quickly adapted so as to tolerate lactose may not be completely germane, but are worth note.

[edit] NPOV

I'm (instintively!) not really very happy with this sentence...

Instinct provides a response to external stimuli, which moves an organism to action, unless overridden by intelligence, which is creative and more versatile

I just think there's a presupposition that intelligence is superior to instinct, and I'd like to see this statement qualified in some way, because it sounds subjective to me.

My question is, is it possible for instinct to over-ride intelligence; or is intelligence driven subliminally by instincts?

For example: Does a human suppress their urge to act upon the instinct to mate or attack; or are there are spectrum of instincts at play, such as the instinct to form a group and not to compromise the values of the group so as to be ostracised (i.e. as a sex pest, or violent criminal)?

I'm personally trying to find credible sources to put the case that there are several instincts in a hierarchy, but interlinked. The instinct to survive must be the top one, then you may have sub-instincts such as: competition, territorialism, procreation, QoL-seeking, learning, and group-forming; and they all interact to check each other, essentiall ensuring that the top ones of survival and reproduction are not compromised. It might then make sense to say that behaviour that conflicts with instincts are maladaptive, rather than advanced and overriding.

Regardless of whether I do find credible sources that do support this thought, there needs to be more referenced and qualified material in this piece, so that there isn't the whiff of a-priori supposition.

It takes one to know one 19:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)Promsan