Talk:Islam by country

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Contents 1 Foreign workers in gulf countries 2 Source 3 Japan 4 Brazil 5 Christianity 6 changed percentages 7 Serbia and Montenegro 8 Puerto Rico 9 Map 10 Brazil-2 11 Purpose? 12 Muslim Population by Country 13 Map is inaccurate. 14 redundancy 15 Picture 16 United States 17 Total 18 Zambia 19 Regional 20 Serbia and Montenegro 21 United States in Top 60 chart 22 Map 23 Korea/South Korea/Itaewon 24 population of muslims in india 25 Accuracy of the figures 26 Number of Muslims in China 27 Unreliable sources 28 Bosnia ?? 29 Afghanistan 30 Reliability 31 Vandalism and semi-protection 32 There is no Kazakhstan in top 60 by %Muslim 33 France = 10%? 7.5%? 6.9? 34 Islam in Ethiopia

[edit] Foreign workers in gulf countries

The numbers on Qatar are way , way, way off. Qatar has a huge population of foreign workers who are not citizens; they outnumber actual Qataris by some counts. These foreign workers are often not Muslim. Thus, the '95%' number is extremely wrong.

One can easily have a reasonable assumption that the same problems exist in other gulf countries with large foreign worker populations.

population of foreign workers who are not citizens should not be counted : population counts should only be of the citizens of a particular country

EDIT: Actually, no ! The figure of Qatar is not way off. According to CIA World book of Facts, Percentage of Muslim in Qatar is 95%[1]. I have edited and added the source ;)

[edit] Source

The source for most of these stats is CIA Fact Book. That's where I got this data initially.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

Later, the rest of the stats were filled from

http://www.adherents.com/Na/Na_321.html#2058 OneGuy 19:34, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I have added most percentage/stats from U.S Department of State site:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/

[edit] Japan

• Just out of curiosity, where did the Japanese percentage come from? 760,000+ Muslims in Japan look like a pretty huge number. PMLF 19:53, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

All the math work was done from the percentage used by the program I wrote (the table was also generated by the program). I used 0.6% using

http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_164.html

The percentage on that page for Japan was from 0.2% to 1%. However, the 1% is from a very unreliable source (in most cases I ignored that source). I don't remember why I used it in this case. In any case, I can change it to 0.2% which will make the total 254,666 which seems more correct OneGuy 23:34, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• • Thanks for answering so fast. I was just curious because that original number sounded too big for a country with no historical Islamic minority and where conversions to foreign religions (like Christianity and Islam) traditionally isn't very common. Although I think even 254,666 is probably too much but since this is the most reliable source available it's OK to keep it until a better source (if there is one)is found. PMLF 04:41, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Immigration not a conversion might be a factor. I know a few Muslims on the internet who claim to be from Japan. Most of them are immigrants from Pakistan, India or Middle East OneGuy 05:26, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• • • According to the page Religions of Japan, there is only a few Muslims in Japan:
    • "Islam has been slowly growing as people comes to contact with it through people from Islamic nations or by learning about it through various ways. It is a very small group probably not even in the thousands and have a limited or no social influence yet and unlikely to in the foreseeable future. While believers may be frowned upon at first, generally, their need to pray and observe certain teachings are not hampered and unlikely to turn into a problem."
    • I don't know what was their source though and unfortunately is too hard to find information about this subject. So, as I said earlier, I am not against keeping the 0.2 % that is already in the page. PMLF 22:22, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

That cannot be right. A number of Japanese Islamic sites indicate that there are many more than just a few thousand.

Islamic Center - Japan http://islamcenter.or.jp/

isuramu.net http://www.isuramu.net/index.html

Islam website in Japan http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~racket/e_index.htm

Tokyo Mosque http://islam3.hp.infoseek.co.jp/benri/masjidtk.htm

Nagoya Mosque http://islam3.hp.infoseek.co.jp/benri/nagoya.htm

OneGuy 04:40, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

And this page has links to dozens of more Japenese Islamic sites

http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~racket/islamlink.htm

And by pictures of Tokyo Mosque [2], it looks to be pretty big mosque. OneGuy 04:46, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, all these mosques suggest a population reasonable high of muslims. Maybe at least 50 000 or more. PMLF 04:25, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Brazil

By the way, PMLF, can you post the source for 0.03% Muslims in Brazil? I was unable to find the 2000 census result on the internet. OneGuy 18:44, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

---

Here (Islamica = Islamic): http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/estatistica/populacao/censo2000/primeiros_resultados_amostra/brasil/pdf/tabela_1_1_2.pdf

The information is from IBGE which is the Brazilian Institute of Statistic. They are the ones that make the census in Brazil.

But they actually say only 27 239 (although I read in some newspaper that it was 56 000). So, maybe you'd better change the informnation to 27 239 instead of 56 000. I'll change my Islam in Brazil page accordingly as I mixed the Census info with the newspaper one.

Hope that helps. There are also information about the amount of Christians: 153 milion out of 170 Million people. And 12 million religionless people. 86,000 Jews, etc.... Feel free to ask qquestions about the file as it is all in Portuguese.

PMLF 04:22, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. According to that site, the total poulation in 2000 was 169,872,856. That makes percentage to 0.016%. I was using 0.1 since I couldn't find the source for 0.03. I will change it to 0.016. I also did Catholicism by country. The percentage I used for Catholics in Brazil was 79.97%. But according to this site, it's little lower, 73.57. OneGuy 06:30, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

73,57% is closer to the census info. According to IBGE there were 125 million Catholics out of 170 Million people in Brazil in 2000. PMLF 17:36, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Christianity

For or a comparison see User:OneGuy/Christianity by country OneGuy 20:12, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] changed percentages

I changed many of the percentages to US State Department's International Religious Freedom Report 2004 [3].

These reports are more up to date than both CIA factbook and adherents.com. I also found them more accurate. If anyone finds an error (in most cases a typo with percentage), let me know OneGuy 04:09, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Any explanation for the large (75%) change in the Serbia and Montenegro? Does the new list exclude Kosovo? - SimonP 04:30, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

75%? It's 5% and was taken from http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35482.htm

The Muslim faith is the second largest in Serbia and Montenegro, with approximately 5 percent of the population, including Slavic Muslims in the Sandzak, and ethnic Albanians in Montenegro and southern Serbia.

OneGuy 04:51, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I see you meant change. No explanation. I just went with the numbers of State Department in this case. That is more authoritative source than adherents.com. I am not sure if they excluded Kosovo (which is unlikely) OneGuy 04:55, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If 19% came from CIA Factbook, I will take State Department's statistics over CIA factbook. I have found many errors in CIA factbook. For example, CIA factbook has 10% Muslims in Swaziland. However, this was contradicted by every other source. I checked State Department on Swaziland and they have...

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35385.htm

The population is approximately 40 percent Zionist, 20 percent Roman Catholic, and 1 percent Islamic.

In my view, these State Department's International Religious Freedom reports are far more accurate than CIA factbook OneGuy 05:30, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Serbia and Montenegro

That was bad :) The above link I gave clearly says that Kosovo was excluded and the rest of the population is 5% Muslim OneGuy 06:59, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

---

Actually according to State Department, (including Kosovo), it's 21%

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35482.htm

According to Montenegro's 2003 census, almost 70 percent of its population is Orthodox, 21 percent is Muslim, and 4 percent is Catholic. OneGuy 21:03, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Puerto Rico

Puerto Rico is not an independent country, and therefore shouldn't be given special treatment. Maybe I can make some of the accompanying text small. So it doesn't screw up the tables. WhisperToMe 05:44, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Puerto Rico is not part of the USA either so I think they should have their own entry in the article, just like they used to do. PMLF 13:24, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Puetro Rico is part of the USA, and maintains a semi-sovereign status. —thames 23:47, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Map

The map on this page fails to show France, Guyana, and Suriname all of which have a Muslim population of over 10% and is confirmed.

The German page on islam has a great map of Islam by country which we should steal and put here. —thames 23:41, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Here is a great map showing Islam by country—specifically the state of Islam in the country's constitution: whether it is an islamic state, islam is the official religion, religion is not mentioned, or the state is officially secular. Very interesting, and data which we should represent here, or at least copy on a map of our own. —thames 15:41, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Brazil-2

About Anon Editor's revert. If there is controversy give a source for the 1-1.5 million because that is a huge difference from 27,000. So, give a reliable source for alternative population counts. Using "unofficial estimates" is far too vague, so, just cite it. gren グレン 03:01, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. Also, there is controversy in every country not only in Brazil. So, if it`s to add this supposed to exist Brazilian controversy, then other similar controversies should be added as well. I doubt, for instance, that there are so many Muslims in Argentina as Muslim immigration to Argentina was negligible. PMLF 03:05, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I think that should be given a source to the claim that the Muslim population in Brazil range from 1 million to 1.5 million. Also, what "unofficial estimates" are these? These sources need to be identified. Otherwise, this entry should be deleted, as per Wikipedia:Cite sources. Regards, Carioca 05:03, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Okay guys, no need to rush. Here is the one from the Islam in Brazil page: [4]. Here are two more I found which cite Muslim community leader estimates [5], [6].Thanks. --a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 19:13, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I still don`t think this controversy should be in the article. Just let it herei n the discussions. This Muslim estimatives look like just wild guesses (which they probably are as according to one of the sites there are only 55 mosques in Brazil, none in Rio, by the way). These sources are simply not reliable since they made no kind of unofficial census. Also, anyone that wants to know the Muslim estimatives on this issue can read the Islam in Brazil article which mentions it. PMLF 19:47, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, you might not think the statistics are true, but I am sure that various community leaders whether they be Muslim, Catholic or Jewish have a rough idea about how much of the populace is in their community. Also discussion does not count as an article. Think of discussion as a forum discussing the actual article. --a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 19:52, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Then these so-called controversies should be added about all other counties not only about Brazil...Otherwise just remove it from Brazil as it`s unfair to include it only for one country when Islamic authorities (and any other religious authorities for that matter) inflate their estmatives in all other countries too. Unofficial estmatives are just that, unofficial estimatives (aka wild guesses as statets above) and doesn`t deserve to be in the article when there is more reliable info available (the census). PMLF 19:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Ofcourse they should be added to others, as long as the sources are reliable. For example I provided a government source that classifies as reliable. But I think one of the reasons on why Brazil's population information is fascinating is because there is such as large difference between government census figures and community estimates. I think this is perhaps due to particular communities that are not amalgamated. Nevertheless, in the future, I will try to work on this for other countries and I will invite you there to check if you want. Thanks, a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 20:12, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

The sites you provided are not reliable at all. Two of them are completely unofficial and are not relevant and the other one (state.gov) says this: Muslim leaders have never taken a formal count of the number of Muslims; however, they believe that the official census greatly underestimated the size of their community. So, this info is not reliable either. So, I keep my position that this controversy must be removed from this article. This controversy only exists in those Muslim leaders heads. I live in Brazil and I can say that their estimative is completely absurd. I don`t know if they want political gains or anything or just think inflating the numbers will make Islam more attractive to Brazilians but the fact is that there is no way there are so many Msulims in Brazil. Newspaper estimatives (56,000-70,000 Muslims) are far more realistic than the Muslims authorities ones. The census is pretty accurate and such a diuscrepancy would probably never occur. It`s hard to believe that 900,000 Muslims didn`t want to say they are Muslims... I`m sorry but I see no reason to keep that controversy in the article. PMLF 20:22, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't know why the figures differ that much. My assumption can only be that there is isolation of communities in Brazil. Still community leader estimates are reliable especially since many community leaders agree on anywhere from 700,000 - 3 million and none below that. You keep saying that because you live in Brazil, you have seen this first hand. I am sorry but your opinion in this case cannot change the article because you are not a sourcable material. Just like you, the brazilian Muslim community leaders also live in Brazil, and they claim their numbers. The only difference between them and you is that they are sourcable. Also I don't know whether the census is reliable or not, because there could be problems with it. Thanks, a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 20:47, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

It`s the same Muslim authorities all the time that say there are this ridiculous amount of Muslims in Brazil. But I really can`t believe you find that source is reliable. Asource has to be reliable to be included and that one simply isn`t... Only because it`s in the internet it doesn`t make it true, you know. You may not believe the official census but they are the only reliable source, like it or not. PMLF 20:51, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

No, the census is "official", reliable can be anything that is widely popularized and cited. I don't agree with either numbers the census nor the community leaders, but this will still need to be in the article especially because there is such a wide difference between the numbers. --a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 20:56, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Again you are comparing the official census to mere estimatives. The wide difference is irrelevant if the alternate source (Muslims authrorities) is not reliable. Adding this estiomative is also misleading because it leads the reader to believe the census is wrong and the alternate sources are right. So, we have to add only official numbers. The place for controversies is in each country`s specific page about Islam not in this article. What Muslim authorities believe or not believe is irrelevant when compared to official (and like it or not, more reliable) sources. PMLF 21:05, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

The only reason this one should be kept is because there is such a large difference between the "official" census and the estimatives of the many community leaders. If there was a difference of ten thousand then there would be no reason, but the difference here is atleast 1 million! Thanks, a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 22:15, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

It is already mentioned in the Islam in Brazil article. No need to addi t here. If anyone is interested in this controversy, then the person wil simply visit the Islam in Brazil article. So, it has ot be removed. No need to include it in the Islam by Country article only for the sake of including it. PMLF 22:19, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Ofcourse they need to know here because there is so much difference between the numbers. It is a large controversy. --a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 19:40, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually there is no controversy. Anyone that thinks the census is wrong will simply verify the Brazilian article for more information as like they do regarding any other country. Wide numbers happen everywhere and this is why we need specific countries articles about this issue. PMLF 20:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Folks, in any case, I think the numbers in the table should reflect the actual, official count by the Brazilian powers that be. If I may venture another wild guess, the numbers cited by various "community leaders" - 700,000 to 3 million - must actually reflect the number of Brazilians of Arab origin. Anyone who knows a bit about the history of immigration in Brazil knows that these folks, mostly Lebanese and Syrian, are overwhelmingly Christian, not being Muslim being the main reason they fled the Middle East. I'm reverting the table to the official count.

Afc 18:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Purpose?

What precisely is the necessity of these Islam by nationality articles? It is the only religion that gets this special treatment by Wikipedia (the Christanity one doesn't dedicate near enough dialogue to come close - and every other religion is ignored).

At best these articles should be reintegrated into the cultural segments of their individual nations and the larger data should be integrated into the Islam article - rather than maintaining this larger seperate structure. However some of this information is completely useless and should be disgarded if it cannot demonstrate a real and concrete impact on the nation in question e.g. Puerto Rico.

---

Well, you can start your own page dedicated to enlightening people about Christianity in every nation of the world. No body is stopping you from doing that!!

[edit] Muslim Population by Country

Where do the figures come from? I remember reading somewhere that Bangladesh had a greater Muslim population than Pakistan (though those figures could be out of date, as Bangladesh's population is no longer larger than Pakistan), and I'm pretty sure that Bangladesh's Muslim population is greater than India's. ςפקιДИτς ^{СФГиганты} 16:54, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Bangladesh had a greater muslim population in 1971, at the time of the independence of Bangladesh. At that time, it had a population of 90 million, while West Pakistan had a population of about 80 million. However, West Pakistan has had a higher population growth rate over the past 35 years, and has overtaken Bangladesh.

India's Muslim population was always larger than that of either West Pakistan or Bangladesh, and it is also increasing at a faster rate than that of either of its Muslim-majority neighbours. Historically, since the 17th century AD, undivided India had the world's largest Muslim population. South Asia remains home to nearly 47% of the world's Muslims, mainly in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

If it is true than soon india is going to have the largest muslim population even overtaking indonesia

[edit] Map is inaccurate.

• If that map is right than Islam is the majority religion in Kenya, Ethiopia, India, and F.Y.R. Macedonia which it is not. Pure inuyasha 21:30, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

• sorry.... didn't see it said areas with more than 10%. Pure inuyasha 21:34, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] redundancy

"Listing of Muslims by country."

What the heck is need for this meaningless sentence? The Title already says "Islam by country." Pure waste 72.129.170.249 20:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

The picture should make it clear that the green indicates 10% or more Muslim population (obviously not all of India is Muslim as this picture shows. When 10% populatoin is Muslim, the picture indicated that as green) 72.129.170.249 20:31, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Now changed. Hope it's clear enough. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 02:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Map is incorrect and misleading. Islam is only 13.5% in India. 85% persent of Indian map is shown green like pakistan as if Islam is dominant in India like pakistan. In most of the Indian interior part shown green here, Islam is as low as 2%. It's better to post a map with different shades where each shade explains definate range of percentage. --Holy Ganga 12:21, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree it's not the most detailed map in the world, but it does correctly show countries which have a Muslim population of more than 10%. India is 13.5% Muslim therefore it is green. I think the map should be included in the article. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 12:58, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] United States

I see someone just changed the figure for the number of Muslims in the United States from 4,140,277 (1.4%) to 7,140,277 (3.5%), so I just want to set some verifiable references for this figure.

• 1% (2,957,341) 2005 CIA Factbook - reported as a percentage which has undoubtedly been rounded making the actual number quite inaccurate. It could be as low as 1,478,671 or as high as 4,436,012.
• 1,104,000 (2001) Statistical Abstract of the United States (p55) - adults only.
• 1,558,068 (2004 est) adherents.com - total Muslim population.

There is some good discussion of the reliability of these figures at adherents.com, where the whole range of reported figures (from 1.1 million to 12 million) are discussed. The main summary page reports a reputable study in 2000 which suggests a best estimate of 1,886,000 and an absolute maximum of 2,814,000. I would personally suggest that the 2004 estimate from adherents.com is used, because it is the figure that they use and it is relatively recent, and that's what I will put in the table now - 1,558,068 (0.5%). The order in the rankings table, the totals for all countries, and the total for North America will need to be updated accordingly. I would prefer to check a few more of the figures before I update it myself. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 02:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

there are definately more than 4 million Muslims in America. There are about 400,000 Muslims in the Chicagoland area alone.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.194.133.213 (talk • contribs) .

That's your opinion is it? -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 23:31, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Total

Where does the "Total" row comes from? Population column sums up to 6,430,856,221 (not 6,430,856,221) and summing of muslim population for every country gives slightly more than 1,497 milions (not 1,476,233,470). Computet from those two values (if correct) muslim share in world's population is slightly less than 23,3% (not 29,955%).

[edit] Zambia

According to the US State Dept religious freedom report[7], 1% (100,000) of Zambia's population is either Hindu or Muslim. According to the US CIA Factbook[8] 24% - 49% (2,702,830 - 5,518,279) is either Hindu or Muslim. What nonsense. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 11:37, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regional

How is it that the Caribbean has 15,000 Muslims, but Trinidad and Tobago has 65,000? Does the rest of the Caribbean have -40,000 Muslims? Guettarda 17:52, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serbia and Montenegro

This country no longer exists - we ought to split it up. I assume most of the Muslims are in Serbia (i.e., Kosovo?) john k 00:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] United States in Top 60 chart

Why is the US listed as #41 on this list, when it clearly isn't? Ed Sanville 12:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

What is the source of these figures? Tagishsimon

See United states section above. It should be removed from the table, but I'm not sure what should replace it. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 13:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map

The map on this page has North Korea as very dark, while the page on Korean Islam says there is almost no Islam in North Korea. From what I understand about the country, the latter is probably correct. It should be fixed. Atropos 08:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

In the map key, it says countries in black have "no data," which is understandable for an isolationist insane regime like North Korea. Ed Sanville 11:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Korea/South Korea/Itaewon

I have seen the mosque in Itaewon and I wonder why Korea is not on the list.

[edit] population of muslims in india

from the time of independence of india to the current day the indian leaders have said that the muslim population of india is greater than that of pakistan. we should remember that bangladesh was also a part of pakistn before 1971.and in that year the population of west pakistan (that is the current day pakistan) was 80 milliom and that of east pakistan (that is the current day bangladesh) was 90 million if we add that we get apopulation of 170 million in 1971 of which 90% were muslim or 153 million . so how many muslims are today in india ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Madman 0014 (talk • contribs).

At least, the population figure for East Pakistan (1971) stated above is *wrong*. The population of independent Bangladesh, according to the 1974 census, was 71.3 million [9]. Even considering the large number of Bengalis (between 1-1.5 million) (both Hindu and Muslims) killed by Pakistan Army in Bangladesh Liberation War of 1971, the number was never above 75 million at that time. The population of west pakistan was lower than this, as Bengalis were 56% of the population of united pakistan. --Ragib 20:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

On my part i found the information from some old arcives from the liaquat national library here in karachi and the arcives were official pakistani documents of the time.

never the less according to cia world fact book the bangladeshi population is 147,365,352 (July 2006 est.) and the pakistani population is 165,803,560 (July 2006 est.) so how do we explain this --User:Madman_0014

i was reading an interview of the imam of fatih pur mosque delhi imam mufti muhammad mukkaram nakshbandi. In the interview he said that the population of muslims in india was at least more than 300 million.(you can find the interview at http://jang.com.pk/jang/aug2006-daily/12-08-2006/dunia.htm)

The census of India in 2001 reported Muslim constitute 13.4% of the population and number 138 million. Reference http://www.censusindia.net/religiondata/Summary%20Muslims.pdf. The Muslims constitute over 98% of Pakistan's population of 166 million people and number 161 million and are the second largest Muslim population in the world. ArsalanKhan 13:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

according to this report the indian muslim population is 30.38% [10]7day 16:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

That is a plainly wrong report from an Islamophobic site. Statistiki 21:58, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accuracy of the figures

How can these figures be accurate when 0.1% of the population in Afghanistan is Christian? The figures in the table states that Afghanistan is 100% Muslims are Islamic. --Canadia 23:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

See also the United States figures above and in the table. This article really needs the references for the numbers for each individual country to be identified and labelled. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 23:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

No one with even the most elementary understanding of demographics, or common sense for that matter, would believe that ANY country would have 100% of the population with the same religion. Even just the margin of error here would make that suspect. Not a single Afghani is non-muslim? I doubt it. Obviously these figures are wrong and need to be corrected with reliablee statistics. 72.227.6.34 00:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

We are talking about rounded figures here. Similarly if we were to say 99% doesn't mean that there are exactly 30746427.03 Muslims in the country. Generally speaking, when a number is given as 100%, it meants that the actual figure could be any from 99.500.....% and larger... If you have accurate info 0.1% of the Afghani population is Christian then please cite it. Please note that 0.04% for example is not 0.1%. It's more accurate to say there is 100% Muslim then 99.9% if the the actual figure is 99.96% (I'm not saying this is the case, I have no idea, I'm siply giving an example, obviously it would be better to say 99.96% if this were the case). Nil Einne 09:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

To avoid further confusion, I added the word nearly so it now says nearly 100%. Although it isn't necessary strictly speaking, I feel it's better to avoid confusion with people who have a limited understanding of stats. Until and unless we can find better figures I suggest it be left at that. Also if we have conflicting info from equally reliable sources we can't just ignore one because we don't like it. For example, if someone says Afghanistan is 0.1% Christian and someone else says it's 99.99% Muslim, and both of these are equally reliable we have can't ignore either. In a case such as this, we would probably use the 99.99% figure and mention that some sources claim Afghanistan has 0.1% Christian (and that this doesn't add up). Again this is just an example rather then a real case but is illustrates the point Nil Einne 10:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I took a look at the CIA book and it's highest estimate for the number of non Christians is 8k. This is only about 0.025% so way below the 0.1% figure quoted above (and this is the highest estimate). There is also a small Sikh and Hindu population but I didn't read in depth Nil Einne 08:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Afghanistan has 80% Sunni, 19% Shia, making a total of 99%, the rest 1% is Christian, Bahai.etc http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5380.htm

[edit] Number of Muslims in China

First there were 38 million Muslims in China, now there are 130 million ! Sources indicate the figure is closer to 20 million. Please comment on the available facts:

• For 130 million[11]

1. apparently published in 1986 in a single Muslim source
2. apparently based on the 1971 census
3. 'Another statistic was used' from a non-available webpage[12] because the World Factbook 'lacks the percentage of Muslims'.
4. clearly a POV source

• For 20 million (c.)

1. published in multiple sources since 2001 based on data from year 2000.
2. There was no census in 1971, and probably no official religion statistics either; There was a census in 2000
3. The World Factbook does not lack this figure - it says it is 1%-2% [13]

I suggest the figure of around 20 million (1.5%) should be used because it is based on a more recent and reliable source. 133 million (11%) is just laughable, as is the verifiability, NPOV and independence of that source. Please comment. Martin Jensen 00:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, 1.5% is also used in US State Department 2006 report (this is the source for the rest of percentages in the article anyway). Here is what it says:

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71338.htm

The country has five main religions: Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Catholicism, and Protestantism. While these are the primary religions, the 2005 religious affairs regulations did not identify "official" religions. The Russian Orthodox Church also operated in some regions, and other religions existed in the country's expatriate community. Most of the country's population did not formally practice any religion. Approximately 8 percent of the population was Buddhist, approximately 1.5 percent was Muslim, an estimated 0.4 percent belonged to the official Catholic Church, an estimated 0.4 to 0.6 percent belonged to the unofficial Vatican-affiliated Catholic Church, an estimated 1.2 to 1.5 percent was registered as Protestant, and perhaps 2.5 percent worshipped in Protestant house churches that were independent of government control. 72.129.164.10 09:45, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

what about this source http://members.tripod.com/arabicpaper/country.html it says that the chinese muslim population was 100 million in 1971Madman 0014 19:30, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

A tripod page? It's the same as the islamicweb.com above. THERE WAS NO CENSUS IN 1971 !!!! Martin Jensen 19:45, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

what about this http://kcm.co.kr/bethany_eng/a_code/china5.html 124.29.194.169 14:08, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

It contains some interesting historic reported figures and sources, but for recent estimates it appears less reliable then the 2000 China census and the US report on religious freedom and CIA World Factbook. Martin Jensen 16:45, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

what about this book http://www.riseofislam.com/russia_and_china_02.html 124.29.194.169 17:45, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I would say it's about as reliable as a two-year-old child saying there are 300 trillion candies in the candy shop. What about reading Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Reliable sources ? Martin Jensen 18:00, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

LOL!!! How could China have that large amount of Muslim populations anyway? Some of the statistics presented here are just unbelievable! Also, how could anyone trust a source from a website called "Rise of Islam"! Is this some kind of outrageous propaganda that some radical Muslims are trying to send out to say that they have influences on the world's most populous country? --Indefinitevirtue 15:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

This is going against NPOV yourself, by judging the validity of a website looking at its name. Discrimination is not tolerated here. 84.69.132.58 05:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

than use this source http://www.islamawareness.net/Asia/China/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Madman 0014 (talk • contribs).

When you explore this vague statement in further detail on the same site, it says there are 20 million[14] Martin Jensen 18:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/islchina.htm Madman 0014 18:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

"Muslims in China number more than 35 million, according to unofficial counts" - where is the source of this information? Martin Jensen 18:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

this could be reliable http://www.naqshbandi.net/haqqani/Islam/China_islam.html 124.29.194.169 18:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

This has no reference to any source at all. Martin Jensen 18:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

or this one http://www.geocities.com/mutmainaa/history/islam_china.html 124.29.194.169 18:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

"according to official statistics there are 28 million Muslim in China" - Nonsense! Martin Jensen 18:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

this appears in context http://www.mail-archive.com/islamcity@yahoogroups.com/msg09940.html One2one 18:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

this is intresting http://kcm.co.kr/bethany_eng/a_code/china5.html One2one 18:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Madman 0014 and/or 124.29.194.169 ( maybe one of you is the others sockpuppet), you need to stop posting these irrelevant sources from geocities and tripod. They are not academic nor credible sources! These are mostly biased informations. Please, take this into consideration, and stop reverting informations in articles like Islam in China and Islam in India.--Indefinitevirtue 00:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

User Madman 0014, is there any particular reason of why you deleted the message I posted above? It is considered vandalism to delete other users feedbacks in the Talk page without consulting the other person first, especially when the post is directed at you. Not only did you not give me a response, you deleted my post instead. I hope you have a legimiate reason for your action.--Indefinitevirtue 17:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

According to this article there was 48 million muslims in China in 1936 http://www.islamicpopulation.com/china_muslim.html

See the above discussions, it is not a neutral source to use for population estimations.

[edit] Unreliable sources

Both http://www.islamicpopulation.com and http://islamicweb.com/ are unreliable sources and should not be used for this article. They both claim to have got statistics from the CIA World Factbook, but in reality the figures they present are completely divorced from the reality of what has been published by reliable sources. Martin Jensen 10:13, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Than we should use another source http://www.themodernreligion.com/convert/china.html how about this one Madman 0014 12:27, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

You have to ask, where does the number of 200 million come from? The source is obviously POV, doesn't reveal its sources, and isn't peer reviewed. That makes it an unreliable source. Martin Jensen 13:33, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with what you already said, why would anyone believe a website that claims to gets its facts from the World Fact Book when in actuality, it greatly differs from it. And how could China have a scentific census in the 1970s period when there was so much going on in the country (Cultural Revolution anyone?). --Indefinitevirtue 15:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

They are reliable. Islamic web says: "The final numbers were obtained by plugging in the percentage of Muslims (taken from MET) and the number of people (taken from CIA) in each country using Microsoft Excel." So not entirly from CIA, as the CIA is POV. --Islamic 01:54, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

These Islamic websites are POV, because if they claim to get its informations from the CIA World Factbook, why would they distort the population figures and fill in other estimated figures? The CIA World Factbook's statistics are official population findings, and are used by the majority of references works, it is at least more credible and neutral than those listed websites.--67.2.149.250 18:47, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Someone seriously needs to enact some kind of actions against all the vandalisms that are going on in this article. The Muslim population percentages in this article, taken out of the US Department of State's statistics, are consistently been vandalized by random users that clearly doesn't pay attention. Example, China's Muslim population is estimated by the Department of State as 1.5% in the 2006 report, but some users keep changing the number as well as the reference to some Islamic website's figures.--Balthazarduju 02:25, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Note: Balthazarduju, Indefinitevirtue, and 67.2.149.250, user:Joycedula, user:Godardesque, user:Andrepalis, and IPs on the ranges 67.2.145.xxx, 67.2.148.xxx, and 67.2.149.xxx are all the same person. -Will Beback · † · 19:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bosnia ??

there are something wrong for the figures of Bosnia and Herzegovina

how could 48% of an population of 4,0 million be 2,4 million? (and CIA factbook say it is 40% muslims there, and when it comes to Ethnic groups it says: Bosniak 48%, Serb 37.1%, Croat 14.3%, other 0.6% https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bk.html#People

The figure in Bosnia was provided 52%, which is incorrect, i changed it to 40% (U.S Dept State 2006)

[edit] Afghanistan

In the above list Afghanistan's given rate is 100% but in the top 60 list it's 99%. Can someone explain that? --Theguys 06:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

that has already been corrected7day 07:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

According to US State Dept, Afghanistan has 80% Sunni and 19% Shia, and other religion is 1%. That makes a total of 99% muslims, [15] why is the figure given nearly 100% :S

Muslims in afganistan is 99%, WHY is it labelled nearly 100%, Most Statistics suggests 80% sunni, 19% Shia, which makes a total of 99% Can someone explain it ??

[edit] Reliability

Hi all. I would just like to reiterate a point made briefly above - when citing POV against any sites which probably do have a bias towards the religion, one should consider the question, why should the rest of the world, i.e. non-Americans consider the CIA facts as being NPOV? If for some of you, to consider sites which defend the faith as being biased is a problem, then for others, to consider sites by people they view as attacking the faith, will also be biased. I hope I make some sort of sense. I'm not arguing for either view here, but just making an observation. Be considerate. The-pessimist 15:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism and semi-protection

Wow, is this article always being edited like this? I'm not sure what the correct figure is for the U.S.; Adherents.com gives 0.5%: 1,558,068; the World Factbook apparently rounds to the nearest percentage, so it just says 1%. Has semi-protection been considered? It seems way too easy for anon editors to randomly change a number here and there, and if nobody notices immediately, it's the sort of thing that's really hard to catch in a later review. -- Jim Douglas ^(talk) _(contribs) 05:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

This article is mostly full of made-up numbers, and has been for a while. Registered editors randomly change numbers too. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 05:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Quite a bold statement 84.69.132.58 05:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with what you said above under Accuracy of the figures ("This article really needs the references for the numbers for each individual country to be identified and labelled.") Every figure should be backed up with the original sources and assumptions. That will be a lot of work, though. -- Jim Douglas ^(talk) _(contribs) 05:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] There is no Kazakhstan in top 60 by %Muslim

It is mentioned in top 60% by population and in Islam by country, but no there. It should be on position #51 Kazakhstan 47% 7,137,346

Now I have no time to change all table - could anybody do it? 91.90.179.77 01:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] France = 10%? 7.5%? 6.9?

The Muslim population of France seems high. The French government, you know, the Government of France, states thats that the population is 4m, which is about 6.9%, not the 10% given by the CIA. [16].

I addition, on the list of top sixty countries, ANOTHER figure is given...at 7.5% of the population. A degree of consistency?

I am sure it is possible to find more accurate data from within the French stats websites, and given the politisation of Islam with regard to demographics (ie how right wing yanks think that Europe is about to become a Caliphate) a more accurate picture should be presented. I do not like the over-reliance on US sources, the CIA fact book in particular. We should be going to nations states which have more accurate demographic date, constructing a more accurate picture. Matchrthom 11:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Islam in Ethiopia

we should use fact book and other "NPOV" sources for this or other wise this shall lead to a dispute.7day 13:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)