Talk:Jackfruit

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Contents 1 Inaccurate Claim 2 Copyright Violation? 3 Variations 4 Characteristic Flavour 5 Translations 6 Flavor and appearance 7 Cleanup 8 Growing in sacks

[edit] Inaccurate Claim

"the fruit is the largest edible fruit in commerce"

This fruit is smaller than many of the fruits in the Cucurbitaceae family, especially the Melon.

Will remove this statement if not qualified. DavidHallett 23:14, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

How is it smaller than Melons!! I've actually seen Jackfruits as large as 3.5 feet in height. I'm yet to see a Melon that large. Thanks. --Ragib 02:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Another thing to note is this is not a single fruit, but a compound fruit. a lot of fruits join together to give the appearance of a big fruit. --

Technically speaking, DavidHallett is right. The Cucurbitaceae family include pumpkins, which it seems, are actually fruit. And there are 900 pound pumpkins out there. As a result I'm going to trim this statement.

ManicParroT 04:52, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I have tried to bring some objectivity to the article by describing the importance of this fruit to the people and culture of South India. The opinion of a non-native of India (Babur) on the fruit, comparing it to sheep's intestines and such is abhorrant. In spite of my repeated attempts to add this context, the author's kept reverting to the quote. Such lack of perspective and stubbornness only serves to reduce the overall credibility of Wikipedia. Just because Bangladesh adopted this to be its national fruit does not by any means diminish its origin (South Western India) and its glorious place in the South Indian culture. To state that the "very first documented description of the fruit" is in a text written by a foreigner to India is inaccurate - [User: Sentryman101 - Born in India, living in the US since 1995]

You just evaded you block for blanking, by creating a new account!! Your unexplained blanking of referenced material constitutes vandalism, and your IP have been blocked for 24 hours for THAT reason, not for any love or hatred of Jackfruits. Finding Babur abhorrent is your POV, please keep POVs off Wiki. If you have further information to add, you are always welcome, but unexplained blanking of information would always constitute vandalism, and please don't do that. Referenced material is always welcome. Thank you. --Ragib 00:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Sir, I understand, now, that blanking is not allowed. I did not create a new account - if you want, please go and check the date and time I created the account (if you can). I tried to add some references to papers that documented evidence that jack fruit was grown in India as early as 6th century B.C. In my opinion, this does not constitute blanking. Even your very article states that the fruit was indegenous to India. You summarily dismissed the changes and reverted back to your original description. No problem - it is your decision to do so.

In addtion, my comment said the comparison was abhorrant - not Babur himself. You said that POV's should be off Wiki - isnt the quote from Baburnama a POINT OF VIEW (Babur's point of view)? Give it some thought and you will find the fallacy in your own argument. At any rate, I am done trying to make this article more objective. Please have it your way (i.e your POV).

I agree with the above user [Sentryman101]. If quoting points of view is against the policy of Wikipedia, Babur's point of view should be removed. Just stick with the facts and remove Babur's quote. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.148.74.13 (talk • contribs).

It's even worse to use anonymous socks. (The IPs resolve to same area!!).

Anyway, back to the original issue, again there is no problem in writing about whatever historical material you can provide from a reliable source. As for the NPOV point, I was referring to YOU as an editor, for finding a quotation "abhorrent". Thanks. --Ragib 01:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks and incorrect conclusions aside, Ragib! have you ever bothered to experience how wonderful a Jack Fruit is? It is delicious in both the raw and ripe forms. If you did, you will realize the injustice caused by the historical quote from Babur. BTW, I am not the same as Sentryman101. This piqued my interest enough to create a profile. --Cnu123

When new and newer accounts crop up suddenly, and their first edits are here, it does look quite interesting.

Jackfruit is one of my personal favorites. So, I know how delicious it is. However, I don't see any problem with Babur's quote, as it gives a different angle. Durian is another such fruit which tastes and smells horrible to outsiders, but people from Singapore simply love that fruit. Thanks. --Ragib 13:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Ragib,Good to know that Jack fruit is your personal favorite. It is also good to know that you do not have any "problem" with Babur's quote about jack fruit. I have no problem with the quote either - I just have a problem with using it in the Wiki page on jack fruit. The reasons are as follows. I went to the wiki page on neutral point of view and it clearly stated the following criteria that qualify a point of view to be "neutral" and pre-requisites for including a reference in a page.

1. The reference requires an identifiable and objectively quantifiable population or, better still, 2. a name (with the clear implication that the named individual should be a recognised authority).

Including the quote from Babur clearly violates rule no. 2 - Babur is NOT A RECOGNIZED AUTHORITY ON JACK FRUIT.

Rule no.1 is not verifiable unless you have proof that there is a study that indicates that the quote represents popular opinion.

In summary, I sincerely appeal for the removal of the quote from the page. If not, I promise to dispute the validity of the presence of the quote on the page because I believe that it is in gross volation of the NPOV policy of Wikipedia.

Thanks - Sentryman101 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.154.48.239 (talk • contribs).

1. Please sign your comments. Stick to a single account
2. Your interpretation of #2 is wrong. That was referring to the source of the reference, not the person. Instead of spending bytes upon bytes over this, why don't you add information on Jackfruit (backed by reliable sources? Thanks. --Ragib 15:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Stop attacking me - I have a single account. Regarding my interpretation of #2, it is your opinion that I misinterpreted the rule. We will let a committee decide who's interpretation is inaccurate. Baburnama is an autobiography - quoting from that source automatically implies quoting the person who wrote it and in this case, he is not an authority on the subject. QED. cheers - Sentryman101 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.154.48.239 (talk • contribs).

Is the quote NOT from Baburnama? #2 applies on the veracity of the source of the cited information, and NOT on the information itself. I'm not attacking you, merely requesting you to log in and sign. Already a lot of different IP addresses are masquerading as Sentryman101 (talk • contribs), so it is difficult to see whether all are the same person or not. Thanks. --Ragib 15:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, stop adding "explanations" like this. Let the readers decide on the comment, not YOU. --Ragib 15:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, you say that I should let the readers decide. Why dont YOU LET THE READERS decide and leave the facts alone. Fact - Babur was a Moghul emperor. Fact - Baburnama is his autobiography. Fact - He was NOT an authority on jack fruit. Why are YOU removing facts from a Wikiipedia page? Just because you can????? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sentryman101 (talk • contribs).

Firstly, the article is doing exactly this. It is presenting a fact from a historic book, that Babur wrote about this as such. A reference backs the source of the quote.

Secondly, the article doesn't say Babur's writing was/is THE TRUTH. By adding your personal "explanation", you add your POV there.

Thirdly, I've restored some of your text, and please provide a source for that. Thanks. --Ragib 15:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it is presenting an opinion - not a fact. Babur thought that the inside of the jack fruit resembled sheep's intestines. I am not disputing that the quote appears/not in the book. I am saying that the quote does not belong here because it represents the opinion of one person - Babur and he is most definitely not a RECOGNIZED authority on the subject. Because of this, if you choose to quote from his book, you need to state clearly who he was and how his opinon is relevant to the subject on hand - jack fruit. I DID NOT add my personal POV at all. I added three FACTS about Babur and YOU REMOVED THEM. Regarding the restoration, I am not looking for anybody to throw me a bone in return for distorting facts and presenting biased opinions on a site like Wiki. I haven't figured out how the appeal process works but rest assured the appeal is going to come - cheers, Sentryman101 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sentryman101 (talk • contribs).

Please spend some more time in Wikipedia to learn more about the policies. The diff I quoted above is your personal opinion, which is not allowed in articles. The article does not endorse Babur's description of the fruit. It merely mentions that Baburnama, a historic book, has this para on the fruit. Whether that text praises or disparages the fruit is irrelevant. Thank you. --Ragib 15:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I just did and am questioning the relevance of quoting from an autobiography of a person who is not even remotely proficient in the topic, let alone a RECOGNIZED authority. Any attempts to clarify this persons's experitse on the topic were summarily dismissed by the administrator - yourself and hence the urge to appeal for objectivity - cheers Sentryman101 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.154.48.239 (talk • contribs).

If you provide "clarification", that's your POV, and personal comment. Thanks. --Ragib 16:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Which portion of this is my personal opinion, pray enlighten me. The Baurnama is the autobiography of the Moghul Emperor Babur, who was not a native of India. Neither was he an authority on Jack Fruit. Hence, the above quote is merely an opinion of an individual. If any portion was my opinion, then you should have removed only that portion. Even better, provide evidence that it is my opinion and I would have removed it myself. Why did you remove the whole thing? Is that the same as "blanking"? At any rate, I dont believe the quote belongs in the page. You do. I am appealing - cheers, Sentryman101 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.154.48.239 (talk • contribs).

It does seem a very bad waste of time to repeat this again and again. Everything except the first clause in your highlighted sentence is your personal opinion and commentary on the quote. Just stick to facts, that's enough. I am not going to repeat this again. As I said, you are free to add information to the article (referenced from reliable sources), but removal of a referenced piece of quotation, just because "YOU" don't like it, is not a justification. Thank you. --Ragib 16:25, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

So is the inclusion of a quote just because "YOU" don't see any "problem" with it. Just think about it. A reader who has never seen a jack fruit in his/her life would be completely biased by this comparison. It would be much better to provide a picture of an open jack fruit (as some other person commented in on the discussion board) and let them decide what it looks like. It is indeed a very bad waste of time for us to argue about this (we agree!). Let's agree to disagree and let a third party decide what's best. I will follow up with the appeal - cheers Sentryman101

I agree with Sentryman on the negative perception conveyed by the quote. I am not from India and have never heard of Jackfruit before... the visual of sheep intestines is not a good start... we should only include opinions that reflect a majority... if not, then we fall into stereotyping... think about it Ragib, what would happen if your thinking would be applied to countries or races? I hereby request that you remove the quote or yourself from this conversation and let calmer spirits take over. (Prince of Carthage)

Why do we keep always getting newbie accounts with very very small number of edits coming to the aid of Sentryman? --Ragib 19:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Instead of focusing on how much each of them contributed, who they are etc, it might be worthwhile for you to focus on what they are saying (what versus the who). They are asking you to REMOVE THE QUOTE because it is out of place - cheers Sentryman101

[edit] Copyright Violation?

Page currently contains:

© Copyright 1996, California Rare Fruit Growers, Inc. Questions or comments? Contact us.

Source: http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/jackfruit.html

Fig. 15: …

Plate 6: JACKFRUIT,

Are © notices allowed in Wiki?
Looks like self-promotion.
Large lump of text lifted from elsewhere - refs to Figs and Plates not included in Wiki version.

This appears to be resolved (already removed) Singkong2005 09:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Variations

There are hundreds or thousands of variety available. They are broadly classified into two as varikka and koozha. people prefer varikka chakka as it is easy to chew the fruit on full ripening. on the other hand koozha chakka loses its strength to retain shape and acts like fluid.

the claim about the bad smell is wrong. On full ripening, most of the variety smells nice, attracting, squirrels, crows and people from around one KM radius.

[edit] Characteristic Flavour

In some regions of the world, this fruit is also nicknamed "miracle fruit".

Why? because it has such an unusual flavour, the brain tries to interpret it by alternating between the flavours it already knows.

Is this experience generalised? If so, how can we add it to this article?

Surely the brain would only do this if its owner is not used to eating Jackfruit. Someone who grows up eating jackfruit would surely be accustomed to the flavour. So your "some regions" must be places where jackfruit is not common? MP 22/9/06

[edit] Translations

Are all of those translations at the beginging really needed? I find them to be very cluttersome.--SeizureDog 21:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I moved them to a separate section, leaving only the scientific name in the intro. Of course, I think that having the list of names in different languages is fine, it just doesn't belong to the intro. A separate section should work. Thanks. --Ragib 21:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

---

This article sucks; good luck improving it. Among the many things it needs is a photo of a dissected jackfruit.

[edit] Flavor and appearance

What is up with the flavor and appearance section? If those fruits are different and aren't jackfruits, then nuke the talk about them. I think the start of that section up until the big rant in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS should just be eliminated outright. It claims the jackfruit is sweet and delicious, then there's a quote later calling it disgusting. I was under the impression it was an acquired taste.

At any rate, I'm eliminating it. Anyone who wants to clean it up, feel free to revert.

-Markusbradley 03:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Most of this section was actually a copyvio, stolen from the Purdue New Crops website. I've removed it now. - MPF 18:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

Did a lot of cleanup... let me know if I deleted any important information. --SameerKhan 23:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Growing in sacks

In Indonesia, it is not uncommon to see Jackfruit growing inside sacks on the tree. I don't know if this is to protect from insects, or to prevent disaster if the fruit should fall from the tree. Is this common elsewhere in the world, and does anyone know why? I'd mention it in the main article if I knew more. --Bwmodular 08:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

No, There is not such a practise at least in Kerala, India. The fruit is also that not easy to fall down from the trunk. Though there is an old saying that translates into 'fallen jackfruit killed a hare', which is something like 'once in a blue moon day'. there are no disaster for that.

about insects. Though I have lived over 25 years in the land, I am yet to see any insect attack on the fruit.