Talk:Jamie Lee Curtis

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Contents 1 The Image 2 Baroness 3 Children's book author 4 Lady Haden-Guest 5 Salary History 6 Name? 6.1 Peerage title in opening paragraph 7 Vitucci grandfather 8 Newer picture 9 Anon adding titles

[edit] The Image

I can't get it to work the Jamieleecurtisstar and it is the PERFECT image for her.

[edit] Baroness

As the wife of a baron, she is correctly referred to as 'Lady Haden-Guest', 'The Lady Haden-Guest', or 'The Rt Hon The Lady Haden-Guest'. (no first name is used). The place name 'of Saling, co. Essex' is not part of the title, it's just meant to clarify the place associated with the title. Not that I suspect she'd care, but Baroness, Lady Haden-Guest is redundant. Someone else

[edit] Children's book author

It seems that J.L.C. is also known as an author of children's books. Try http://www.google.com/search?q=jamie+lee+curtis+children's . As I'm not much of an article writer, I won't even attempt to amend the article itself, but it should be done!! -- User:jnothman

[edit] Lady Haden-Guest

Please don't patronise me. Policy is to use "Baron" and "Baroness" for the lowest rank of non-Scottish Peers, because that's the legal term for the rank and the form that is found in legal names. You just need to look at any article on a male Life Peer — they are listed as "John Smith, Baron Such-and-Such", even though they're never called that in "conventional usage". Proteus (Talk)

[edit] Salary History

Is this section really needed, or even appropriate? How much somebody is payed doesn't sound like encyclopaedia material to me, and quite frankly is none of our business how much she was payed.

I've removed the section for these reasons Lochok 23:24, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name?

As written, the article lede implies that Jamie Lee Haden-Guest is her legal name, but that Jamie Lee Curtis is what she is "universally known as". Is Haden-Guest actually her legal last name? I don't know about the UK, but in the US a woman must take active steps change her name upon marriage -- it doesn't just happen automatically. Which raises the question: if she hasn't changed her name, is she properly known as "Jamie Lee Curtis, Baroness Haden-Guest"? --Jfruh 23:21, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Under UK rules she wouldn't be either — peerages replace surnames, so her legal name is "The Right Honourable Jamie Lee, Baroness Haden-Guest" as far as British law is concerned (the article should probably mention this). I can't comment on US law, as I know next to nothing about it. However, I'm almost certain we don't have a policy on what to do when legal names in different jurisdictions clash. As the title is British, however, it makes sense to use British conventions when using it as part of her name. Proteus (Talk) 00:17, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I changed the lede to match this info. It would be nice to get some kind of confirmation on her actual legal name in the US. --Jfruh 21:27, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Not to be nit-picky about the name, but I think that the title shouldn't be used as the very first name in the article unless we have some confirmation that she legally changed her name to same in the US. I know as you said that her name changed automatically under British law to reflect her husband's title, but since she's US citizen resident in the US most of the time, I think her name under US law should come first. Anyway, as you note she doesn't legally have a surname, yet her surname is listed as "Haden-Guest" in the edit you just made... --Jfruh 01:28, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I definitely don't think that it is necessary to mention the title at the top as she never uses it:

"Nobody addresses me as Lady Guest anywhere except perhaps at the House of Lords. It's what they do there—and it's probably the only place in the world where anyone will address me in that manner even if I go, `Oh no, no, no, just call me Jamie.'"

As it is mentioned further down that is enough. Arniep 20:28, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

It is our policy to start articles with full legal names, regardless of what people use, so what she says is totally irrelevant (especially as she doesn't even appear to know what her title is, which is rather careless of her). See, for instance, Thomas Pakenham, Bertrand Russell and Colin Moynihan. Proteus (Talk) 23:09, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

But you haven't answered the question of whether it is her legal name in the country where she lives and was (I believe) married. The version we had a while back -- "Jamie Lee Curtis (born November 22, 1958), known under British law as The Right Honourable Jamie Lee, Baroness Haden-Guest" -- seems to me the best way around that question until it is answered definitively. --Jfruh 23:30, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Proteus has an obsession with titles. It is just completely inappropriate to include this at the top of an article of a hollywood actress especially as she has said she is never addressed as that and never uses it. Arniep 01:14, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I have an obsession with accuracy. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you find something else to do with your time, since Wikipedia clearly isn't for you. Proteus (Talk) 22:20, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately it's not what policy says the article should start with (and would be a completely unprecedented format). Proteus (Talk) 22:20, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I guess my question for you, Proteus, is: Why should the law of a country where she does not live and of which she is not a citizen determine her legal name, or determine her "first citation" name in Wikipedia? I think this may be a case where different jurisdictions would consider her to have different legal names. What does policy have to say about that? --Jfruh 23:32, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't consider it an issue — it simply says that people with titles have articles starting with them. Proteus (Talk) 16:05, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, perhaps it should consider that an issue. I shall take it up over there then. --Jfruh 18:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Just to point out, US citizens may not accept British titles. It is the law. By doing so, they relinquish their US citizenship. Barring evidence that Curtis has done so, the Baroness title is simply what the folks in the UK call her. Risker 05:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Then I will point out that there is no such law in the U.S. What you refer to is called the Titles of Nobility Amendment, which was proposed by congress as an amendment to the U.S. Constitution. (in the early 1800's) Although being passed by the Senate and the House, requires ratification by two-thirds of the states to become effective law. (And has been passed by twelve states as of this time) It needs another 26 states before it could become law. Atom 06:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Addressing her it would correctly be "Lady Haden-Guest". In introducing, "Lady Haden-Guest, Baroness of Saling". All titled people may "style" themselves as they desire (or as the Queen desires). As such, it would seem that Lady Haden-Guest prefers to be styled as "Jamie Lee Curtis". Atom 16:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peerage title in opening paragraph

From Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies):

While the article title should generally be the name by which the subject is most commonly known, the subject's full name should be given in the lead paragraph, if known. Many cultures have a tradition of not using the full name of a person in everyday reference, but the article should start with the complete version.

No-one would argue that the article should be at Jamie Lee Curtis, Baroness Haden-Guest as the title should be the most commonly used name. However, according to Wikipedia guidelines, the opening paragraph should include the complete version whether it's in everyday use or not. JRawle (Talk) 13:27, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

The full title should NOT be the first mentioned as she is rarely, if ever, referred to by the full title. The MOS guidance above does not require that it must be the first mentioned, only suggests that the title should be mentioned in the lede. older ≠ wiser 13:45, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

...the article should start with the complete version, and to me, "start with" means it comes first. But I won't change it again and start an edit war (although I have made a slight change as "Jamie Lee" is not part of her "title"). JRawle (Talk) 14:01, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I think your change is fine. I don't really know (or care all that much) what the official title is. There needs to be a element of common sense as well -- if a person is not commonly known by the title it seems rather peculiar to put forward that title in the first instance of the lede as if it were common. older ≠ wiser 14:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

The current version seems fine to me. Proteus (Talk) 14:57, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

It should be 'Lady Haden-Guest' not Baroness. No-one except Wikipedia refers to the wife of a Baron as a Baroness, however "correct" it may be in absolute terms. We make ourselves look like idiots for saying so. David | Talk 22:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

So if I were to provide a counter-example to your claim, let's say Burke's calling the wife of the late Lord Soames "The Baroness Soames" [1], you'd stop doing this? Proteus (Talk) 22:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll take that edit as a "no", then. Come on, you're not this ridiculous — the whole "backing up assertions" business works both ways, you know. I've provided a respectable source doing what you're saying is never done, so are you going to provide one saying that calling Barons' wives Baronesses should never be done, or am I to assume you're just going to ignore the talk page and revert until I get bored and go away? Proteus (Talk) 23:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vitucci grandfather

Someone added this claim, no doubt from the AION website (a website that lists actresses of Italian descent). They say that Tony Curtis' grandfather was an Italian named Vitucci, but it is quite explicitly stated here that his mother was a Helen Klein.[2] Does anyone have a reliable source for the Vitucci thing? Mad Jack 06:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

the source is an italian book, "La banalità del bene", where, in an interview, Tony Curtis says he had a grandparent called Vitucci.

[edit] Newer picture

I need a more recent picture for a wikinews article on Jamie Lee Curtis, but I don't get the image liscensing with actors and actresses. So can someone upload a fair use picture of her on Wikipedia, and then I'll upload it on Wikinews? Thanx. íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 15:23, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anon adding titles

I dont know what the rules/preferences are for noble titles so someone may want to clean up the matter that has been added by the anon in the intro. It probably makes more sense to be listed later in the article. JoshuaZ 18:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I was just wondering if this article should mention the popular rumor that Jamie Lee Curtis is an XY female?