Talk:Japanese Sign Language syllabary

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I intend to add photos of the hand shapes, but we've mislaid the digital camera. When it's found, I'll do this. kwami 08:11, 2005 August 8 (UTC)

I did that (add photos) for three of the yubimoji. I don't have time to do more now, maybe I'll add more later... it takes a lot of time. Good idea though! Nesnad 16:43, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the sign for SE is really TO. (SE is just the middle finger.) kwami 19:02, 2005 August 26 (UTC)

Wow, not sure how I did that. I must have had a brain freeze. Thanks for noticing. It should be better now. If I have time I will add more with the same style soon. Nesnad 21:57, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

These are great, though I only reluctantly concede my budding career as a hand model for Wikipedia. Just noticed that ke looks intermediate between ke and te -- is it not necessary to hold the thumb over the palm for ke?

Also, eventually, we might want to add verbal descriptions for the deaf & blind.

kwami 18:59, 2005 August 30 (UTC)

About the ke yubimoji... I thought it wasn't bent, and I found sources that way, but also found sources bent, so I made a new version because I trust your opinion. I'm aware that my "accent" is maybe strong with these yubimoji, so if anyone has anything to say about them please give your opinion! I welcome it. Thanks. PS: Oh yes, and verbal descriptions--- good idea. (hint hint.) Oh..and.. Don't give up on your hand model career! Many more places to model your fingers.... What about the Japanese version of the English hand page? (English page is already covered with two pictures.) 手 go for it! Nesnad 16:21, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Don't take my opinion too confidently! I only learned the tiniest smattering of JSL, and I've never seen anyone fingerspell. Both sources I have show the thumb bent, that's all. However, with any sign of course there will be variation, such as ASL "e" made with only two fingers touching the thumb. JSL "u", for example, often looks more like ASL "v" than ASL "u". Since there's no contrast in JSL, there's no reason to keep the fingers together. The picture you now have for "ke" is good, I think. It's less bent than my sources show, but more than yours, and is probably a good compromise: Either version will be recognized by someone who sees this picture. (Likewise, I had planned to model the "u" with my fingers just slightly separated, so that either version could be expected.) kwami 19:08, 2005 September 1 (UTC)

Okay, two more criticisms (that seems to be all I do!):

Your ku is closer to yo. I don't think finger separation is phonemic in these signs. Also, these two signs are taken from the numeral system: ku is 9 (thumb + 4 fingers), whereas yo is 4 (4 fingers).

The so is pointing the wrong way. You never point at someone with your finger unless you're yakuza! (When you do point, you use an open hand, palm up.) The so should be at a comfortable angle, intermediate between pointing at your interlocutor and to your right (or whichever the outside direction is), and angled toward the ground. It derives from the demonstratives sore "that" and soko "there", which should give you a good feel for it.

Shaping up nicely! kwami 23:40, 2005 September 8 (UTC)