Talk:JF-17 Thunder

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Contents 1 Minor fixes 2 Links in headings 3 Specifications 4 Citing Sources 5 JF-17 vs hal tejas and F-20 Tigershark 6 Vandalism

[edit] Minor fixes

Just added more details fixed minor defects User:Ali 786 all the info on the plane is wrong [[[User:202.138.120.65|202.138.120.65]] 12:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)Go Around making models be it JF-17 Thunder or LCA. Both look promising oon paper. But war-experience is one thing of which the pilots should be wary of. JF-17 is the rejected MiG-29 design, clearly evident by the swept wings and tails just in the angles of MiG-29. Its just a toy.202.138.120.65 12:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)]

"rejected MiG-29 design" - no such thing. [1]. - Aerobird 15:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I added some refrences and tidied up the article, sorry for the too many edits. (Faraz 18:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Links in headings

Per MOS (headings):

Avoid links within headings. Depending on settings, some users may not see them clearly. It is much better to put the appropriate link in the first sentence under the heading.

- BillCJ 18:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Specifications

Just a note on Powerplant specs: The space there isn't really designed for extended comments, such as that on thrust-vectoring. THere isn't a section in the text on Engines/Powerplants as yet. Maybe one should be creaed and the extra info placed there. I don't know if the current editors have plans for a section on this, but it's worth considering. - BillCJ 16:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citing Sources

Wow, what an interesting article! Someone put a lot of time into putting all this together. Unfortunately, the information is not cited. Please read wp:cite and choose a method of referencing the text. Otherwise, great article! Alan.ca 08:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Yea look at the "Ground maintenance equipment" section, its full of BS thats not even cited. Large portions of this article is dedicated for other planes

A lot of that stuff reads like an advertisement. Cleanup desperatly needed! - Aerobird 15:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Although the Chinese HMS for J-7E/F-7PG has already enjoyed numerous advantages over the latest Russian HMS developed later, how could that be possible??

[edit] JF-17 vs hal tejas and F-20 Tigershark

I think JF17 is far more advanced than hal tejas and F-20 Tigershark.......thats why i think these two should not be placed in the comparable aircraft list. --Mm11 09:37, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

This category covers more than just advancement, or even capability. These are all single-engine OR indiginous fighters. The Tejas is a contemporary of the JF-17, and probably as advanced except in terms of raw thrust. The F-20 is questionable here, but there is a resemblance between the two, especially the wings. Aerodynamically, the JF-17 is not as advanced as the Tejas, Typhoon, or Raphale (blended wings/fuselage, canards), being more in the class of the F-16 and F-20. So I think the list is good as it stands. - BillCJ 17:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Get a few facts straight JF 17 is NOT a fourth generation aircraft and has the capability roughly comparable to a uprated 3rd generation aircraft I mean the thing is designed around a single russian/Chinese supplied engine(not exactly known for their reliability which is why all modern russian planes are twin engined) and is made from aluminium alloy(NOT even a bit of composites).All fourth gen aircraft are +9G capable the JF 17 isn't... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.254.107.243 (talk • contribs).

Maybe we should say it is an "attempt" at a fourth-generation aircraft. :) Anyway, it's clear it's intended as a cheap alternative to more expensive Western and Russian fighters. It's also primarily for export, as China will probably not buy it in favor of the J-10, as evidenced by the fact it apparently does not have a Chinese J-number designation.

The joint venture between china and pakistan to develop this aircraft is now defunct as Russia has refused to supply engines for this aircraft.

Not true. The production is well on track and the first delivery will be around March, 2007. Chendu circumvents the RD-93 engine embargo by producing a Chinese copy of RD-93, WS-13. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sinolonghai (talk • contribs) 16:58, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

According to my research JF-17 Thunder is far too advance then the Indian built HAL Tejas, many sources confirm that HAL Tejas is not even 4th generation aircraft as mentioned by people on 4th generation jet fighter they consider the HAL Tejas project has been Cancelled/Aborted. As mentioned on HAL Tejas the range of the aircraft is far too less when compared with JF-17 Thunder (2000 kms (Tejas) vs 3000 kms (JF-17) respectively) and the difference in avionics and the cockpit is far too evident, JF-17 being 4.5th generation. —comment was added by Faraz ([[User talk:Faraz|talk]

Please stop removing the HAL Tejas from the Comparable aircraft list. They are very comparable in one respect: they are both attempts at producing somewhat-indiginous high-tech combat aircraft. Whether one is superior to the other in actual combat is not currently known - and hopefully won't ever be. I am neither Indian or Pakistani, and I am endevoring to be as neutral as possible on this matter. I can find Pakistani sources which claim the JF-17 is better, and I can find Indian sources that claim the Tejas is better. Let's stop bickering over this minor issue, and get on with the business of improving the article with verifiable sources, which this one sorely needs. - BillCJ 23:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Faraz, the range of 3000 kms that you mentioned for JF-17/FC-1 is actually its ferry range, and not the combat-range. Ferry range is the range which the aeroplane can fly without carrying any weapon-load (just on internal fuel and external fuel pods).

All in all, the Tejas is comparable to the JF-17, and this comparison will go down in the history of military aviation as being one of the most interesting ones, alongside the ranks of MiG-19--F-86, MiG-29--F-16, Spitfire--Messerschmitt Bf109, and the F-15--Su-30. IAF

[edit] Vandalism

Someone has removed most of the article which went unnoticed until now, the page was vandalised by 129.12.200.49 on 14 March 2007. The following text was removed:

Present status Looking at the status of the development's work, the 4th prototype version of the JF-17 Thunder combat jet has successfully completed its first operational flight in Chengdu, China, on Wednesday, 2006-03-10[4]. The 4th prototype of the JF-17 Thunder combat jet is configured as a multi-role fighter-bomber and is capable of carrying multiple air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons. The fighter jet is equipped with advanced electronics and weapons systems. Pakistan will receive the first consignment of 2 aircraft on 2007-03-23, while the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra will start manufacturing the JF-17 in 2008. China will start official production in June 2007.

4th prototype version is said to be redesigned with F-35 JSF style Divertless Supersonic Intakes (DSI) being the most notable feature; according to Lockheed Martin, DSI is more stealthy than other conventional air intakes as well as DSI also diverts turbulent boundary-layer airflow away from the engine inlet[5] [6]

At the 6th Zhuhai Airshow in China, a Unit Training Device (UTD) appearing identical to the earlier mockup of the JF-17 was publically displayed, and the manufacturer of the aircraft, along with other manufacturers of airborne weaponry, provided more detailed information on the projects:

Avionics The 4th prototype includes advanced avionics features such as:

Cockpit Advanced 4.5th generation EFIS with cockpit displays that are compatible with western systems such as those built by Rockwell Collins and Honeywell. The current MIL-STD-1553B data bus can be readily replaced by MIL-STD-1773 fiber optics data bus upon customer's request. The control panel consists of only 3 color screens (20.3 cm × 20.3 cm each). All information is processed and displayed on them. The functions of each screen are exchangeable. Brightness and contrast can be adjusted either automatically or manually. Displays can also be adjusted to be compatible with night vision goggles. Each screen can be re-defined individually. The current CRT display can be readily replaced by LCD upon customer's request, and touch screen option is also available. (However, neither the Chinese PLA Air Force nor the Pakistani Air Force has shown any interests in the touch screen options, and there is no known successful past export either.) HUD is a state-of-the-art system developed by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC). Many images/information can be displayed at the same time. All HUD and head-down displays are compatible with the standard electro-optical targeting pod that is carried externally. HOTAS control. Intelligent avionics. Avionics system is all-digital and fully integrated. Distributed structure. Two independent but exchangeable (can backup each other) STD-MTL-1553B data buses connect all equipment, plus two powerful control computers (that can also backup each other). Each computer controls one data bus.

Radar

Artist's concept of the JF-17 Thunder in PAF colors and markingsInitially, Pakistan wanted to use the Italian Grifo-S7 radar. However, the Chinese offer had some key advantages over the Italian one, such as compatibility with Chinese weapon systems.

Radar has strong ECCM capacity and multiple modes, such as A2A (both BVR & close), air-to-ground, air-to-sea, terrain avoidance, etc. Terrain following mode is not standard, but can be added upon customer's request by either incorporating an external pod such as the Chinese Blue Sky navigational and targeting pods, or alternatively, the direct integration of the radar itself. It can simultaneously detect 40+ targets, simultaneously track 10 of 40 detected targets, and simultaneously engage 2 of the 10 tracked targets by guiding 2 semi-active radar homing BVR missiles to attack two separate targets. Alternatively, two missiles can be fired at the same target to insure the kill probability. When active radar homing air-to-air missiles are used, the number of targets that can be simultaneously engaged are increased to 4. The detection range for a typical air target of RC 3 m² is 125+ km; looking downrange is 45+ km; range for sea target is 250+ km. When engaging land targets, the Chinese radar can lock on to individual vehicle like American radars do, instead of only being able to lock on to a large group of vehicles like the Russian Phazotron Kopyo (Spear) radar onboard MiG-21-93. Easy to access LRUs with fully digitized solid state electronics and built-in self test functions. Plenty of room for improvement is incorporated in the design so that the current plannar slotted array that can be readily replaced by a passive phased array. Reporgrammable digital processor with open architecture design. Option to incorporate IFF. The internally mounted electro-optics is not standard for JF-17, but the radar is compatible with them for their rapid integration upon customer's request.

I will be renaming "Present status" to "design Characteristics" Faraz 20:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Oops! Sorry! I usually try to watch for that kind of stuff, but I missed it! Yes, isome of it still needs sourcing, but that's no reason for an an unexplained deletion, though it probably was vandalism. I'll try to watch the article a litte more closely. Good catch! - !!!!