User talk:Jhall1

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Welcome!

Hello, Jhall1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Robdurbar 22:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

No, no coincidence; you popper up on my radar when you edited the List of Durham University people (a page I started myself). Happy editing! --Robdurbar 23:27, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cricket WikiProject

Thanks Jhall1 for your cricket edits. please join us at WikiProject Cricket, where we are attempting to coherently expand crickeet coverage on wikipedia. Thanks, Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 00:33, 8 June 2006 (UTC).

Good stubs you've just written. Keep it up! Sam Vimes | Address me 20:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rsc

You are John Hall of rsc, aren't you ? I don't know why I took so long to recognise you ! Tintin (talk) 05:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Btw, what is the connection between GG and Horse ? Tintin (talk) 06:51, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Yep, I'm that John Hall. I was wondering whether you were rsc's Tintin. :)

In baby-talk, a "gee-gee" is a horse. JH 09:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] University / Varsity?

To expand a bit on my short comment on the Project Talk page: I'm a bit uneasy about using University Match (cricket) as a title for an article about the Oxford v Cambridge match for a couple of reasons. Since this is a bit waffly, I thought it best to put it direct to you.

Firstly, as I said there, "Varsity" is widely used to refer to cricket even within Oxbridge: see, for example, this page from Cambridge, which although it uses "University Match" at the top, also says: "Dating back to 1827, the Varsity Cricket Match is the oldest..." And here's one from Sidney Sussex College, titled "Free Admission to Varsity Cricket Match 2002". This usage is echoed at Oxford: a 2005 Oxford University Society report contains this: "Unfortunately the Oxford men’s team lost the Varsity Cricket match...", and an issue of Oxford Blueprint has "...a radical new change to the annual Varsity cricket match..."

The second thing that gives me pause is that the intended title does rather invite the question of where other university cricket should be covered, as matches between a county and Oxford or Cambridge in pre-UCCE times are often listed as "University Match", as can be seen in this (randomly chosen) fixture list for 1990. Yes, a page such as University cricket could easily be set up, but there might still be some potential for confusion.

This isn't something I have very strong views about, I should make clear, so I'm not going to kick up a fuss about whichever name you decide upon. Nor did I attend Oxbridge, so I will obviously defer to any knowledge you or anyone else have about the "official" name. I'm just not quite sure whether the nomenclature is necessarily quite as clear-cut an issue as some people (Jack...) think it is! Loganberry (Talk) 15:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply about this; I think what you intend should work pretty well. I see you've already got a pretty decent stub up, which is excellent to see. The redlinks will need to be sorted out, of course (ie by pointing them to names rather than just initials, except maybe in MJK's case!) but other than that I don't see anything wrong with it at all. Good stuff! Loganberry (Talk) 16:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Universities

Hello John. I didn't realise the CUCC and OUCC articles were so small. I'll make a note to add to them in due course. Do you think a list of results would help the University Match article? --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 06:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Harris and ICC

Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Cricket/archive19#India_in_ICC contains an unsolved problem about the year that India joined the ICC. Any comments would be welcome. Tintin (talk) 11:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks John. Barclay's sounds like 1929 :-\ Please let me know if you come across any more on this. Tintin (talk) 14:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alan Gibson

I'm very pleased you've put an article in on Gibson: a charming, hugely intelligent, irascible, impossible character (I met him a few times) but one of the wittiest writers on cricket of all time, in my view. I particularly liked one Times column where, if I remember correctly, a match at Derby managed, because of rain, to have only four balls bowled all day. Gibson, though, got a full column out of it by complaining, at length, about the rules of Scrabble in the Derbyshire press box and maintaining that the county's fortunes were likely never to revive while they allowed so many doubtful words. There was one report also where he arrived (at, I think, the Wagon Works ground in Gloucester, an old favourite) to find the Sage of Longparish already installed in the press box and expecting Gibson to be somewhere quite elsewhere. I have a copy of A Mingled Yarn somewhere: it's quite painful to read in parts. Johnlp 21:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Surrey county cricket teams

Hello again, John. I'm afraid the reference list I've been using in all of these articles is a default and it's especially bad as two of them are specifically about Sussex. I've reduced the Surrey list to nine which I have used and from which I have additional material to be added in due course. I'll make a note to go back through the other counties and check their lists: I know I have edited one or two but can't remember which ones! Thanks for pointing it out.

What I'm doing with the counties is creating an additional article re any county that had first-class teams before the county club was formed. These are Kent, Sussex, Surrey, Hampshire, Middlesex, Essex and Berkshire who all had "county teams" via various organisations, hence the change of title from "X cricket team" to "X county cricket teams". In addition there were the "old town clubs" operating in Sheffield, Nottingham, Leicester and Manchester which were nevertheless representative of their respective counties and were occasionally referred to as the county.

Then to provide a more historical perspective within the county club articles, I'm ensuring that they all have sections about their origins and first-ever matches and what have you, as well as a bit of standardisation of honours lists, etc. Some of the county club articles like Somerset and Yorkshire were already very good but most are really stubs in terms of their potential. Some were poor, especially Essex and Lancashire where a reader would think the clubs were formed in the last 25 years or so.

As well as Berkshire, I need to do some work on Norfolk and Cambridgeshire which had first-class teams in the 19th century. I still have Glamorgan, Northants and Worcestershire to look at among county clubs: the Northants article is very sparse. I would like to do something with all the other minor counties too.

Nice to hear from you again. All the best. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 06:38, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: London County Cricket Club

Thanks very much for your message, John, and for correcting the article!

Stephen Turner (Talk) 20:02, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Limited Overs Honours

Hello again, John. I'm looking for a consistent format to use across all counties. It's meant balancing different existing usages.

The main thing is to ensure that the honours section is in the same location and I decided to follow Playfair and have it straight after the intro. Most county articles already had it there anyway. Then it was a case of what sub-headings to use as I want to include 2nd XI and any past Minor Counties titles (I've used the same approach for the Minor Counties themselves). Other Honours already existed in the Yorkshire and Lancashire articles so I adopted the idea as it is useful.

Having thought about the former B&H Cup, I decided to place it in Other Honours as I think the main honours should be for (a) first XI titles; (b) national championships; (c) current competitions. My main reason for doing this is that the encyclopaedia is intended to be a permanent record and, in years to come, people who are new to cricket and look at honours are going to wonder why this tournament they've never heard of is in there with the current ones. So, although it is still recent, I decided to take the long-term view and have current competitions only in the main section. Incidentally, although I haven't done anything with this yet, I think "finishing tenth" (i.e., winning Division Two) should go in Other Honours.

Re first XI titles, the Minor Counties was an issue as four counties won it at first XI level while several others have won it at second XI level. Fortunately none of the first four ever won it as a 2nd XI so MC goes into first XI honours for them and in 2nd XI honours for the rest.

The C&G Trophy is difficult. At first I used the generic term "Knockout Cup" which is used in a few books but two or three people in different articles soon changed it to C&G or to Gillette or to NatWest or a combination. I thought the current name might be the best to use (as with the National League). I think it would be an idea to add a footnote re both of these on every page to explain past titles but leave the current names in the sub-headings: if you're okay with that I'll do it in a day or so.

Re the B&H, I'm open to offers. Now that you've seen my rationale, if you still think it should go back in the main section I'll move it as I'm not bothered. It's just that I think, long-term, people will eventually relegate it as it is obsolete.

I'm happy to have a forum about all this on the WikiProject page but it's one of those things that needs doing first so people can look at it and then decide.

Thanks for writing to me again, John. I'm always glad to hear from you as you take a historic view of the game. All the best. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 07:50, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

John, just to let you know I changed all county articles as you suggested and in addition I changed the National League tag to "Sunday/National League". I'm going to put Division Two wins below the championship or NL title but indented. As they are season-long competitions they should be recognised but they should not be equated with winning the Division One title. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 14:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1965 English cricket season

Hi John. I honestly don't know how that one was missed. Perhaps there was one of the "session data lost" messages and I didn't see it. Fortunately I'd done the work for all of these in TextPad beforehand so the data wasn't lost. Anyway, it's there now.

This is quite a daunting task really and the hard bit is yet to come because we have hardly anything on the site about 19th century cricket. I've got all the data I need for the 18th century but it's no simple job to put it together for Wikipedia input. No matter. I enjoy all the learning I get out of it. Best regards. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 10:37, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "The human catapult"

I changed the "Philadelphia newspaper" to the name of the poet as per Gerald Brodribb, The Croucher, p.73 : "Philadelphia at the time had a cricket poet, Ralph D. Paine, who recalled the great feats in the manner of Craig, the Surrey rimester, who sold his broadcast poems on the county grounds". It quotes 44 lines but apparently the poem is still longer because the book calls it only "a passage from the poem". Tintin (talk) 14:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

"The Croucher" is a splendid book. I have had it for three years but read only bits and pieces. A limerick from Jessop's Cambridge days goes :

There was a young Fresher called Jessop

Who was pitching 'em less up and less up

'Til one of the pros

Got a blow on the nose

And said : 'In a helmet I'll dress up'

An alternate last line being : "And a man with a mop cleared the mess up". Tintin (talk) 16:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A book

John - can you please take a look at this one : User_talk:Johnlp#Another_question_about_a_book Tintin (talk) 13:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

If you look on Tintin's page, you'll find you and I responded in chorus at exactly the same time. We aren't the same person, are we? Johnlp 18:19, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Lol. Thanks. It is not easy to buy books from here because the postage itself will cost some 400-500 rupees. Tintin (talk) 18:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Harry

Done ! Tintin (talk) 10:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alresford

Hi John. I'd love to see an article about the Alresford club. I'm still researching the early 18th century and I don't have Arlott on Cricket so I suggest it would be best if you were to create the article using that book as the main source. John Arlott came from Hampshire, didn't he?

I have Alresford playing major matches from 1779, when they played Berkshire, and they were certainly eminent into the mid-1780s. Tom Taylor and RA Veck seem to have been the most famous players and, as you say, they were both first-choice for Hambledon.

One thing I've wondered about before is if the Alresford club organised the Hampshire matches on Itchen Stoke Down; rather than Hambledon Club which has always got the credit for organising all Hampshire matches? What do you think?

All the best.--BlackJack | ^{talk page} 06:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Excellent! I added some more references which all mention Alresford. I repaired the links to Tom Taylor and Richard Aubrey Veck too: I haven't written anything about the Freemantles yet. I added the club to the template and I'll put in some match details before long when I get back to the 1770s. I'm working on London and Slindon at the moment in the 1740s and 1750s.

Incidentally there is another prominent club from the late 18th century which should have an article and that is Montpelier. Apart from anything else, this is the club that was the driving force in the foundation of Surrey CCC. All the best. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 21:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tom Richardson

You have written in the rsc thread about suicides that Ralph Barker's research proved that Richardson's death was not a suicide. What were the circumstances of his death ? Tintin (talk) 10:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Maybe we can add a line or two more about his death. Tintin (talk) 05:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Carpenter

Hi John. Good to see this fellow up and running. He was a great batsman and one of the "original tourists". I've added a few bits that I know of him and a couple of references. All the best. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 17:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tom Lockyer

I've seen that story too and I think you're right that it was Lockyer. By the way, I've created a list of 19th century players in the All-England Eleven article with their CricketArchive links appended and I'm working my way through that using the CA data as a basic reference. I've deleted the ones I've already done, who are the ones "on the ship" in 1859. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 21:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canadian Tours

Hi John. You are right about that tour and I believe there has been another. The article is not finished because my info only goes up to the 1950s. If you have details of the later tour(s), please feel free to update. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 20:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I made a start on the overall history with History of Canadian cricket. I haven't decided yet if to develop this to cover the whole history or if to limit it to an early period and then go for more detailed season reviews afterwards, which is what I've done with the Test countries. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 13:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Well spotted ;-) I've changed it to show the right centuries. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 16:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. It seems that relatively few settled in Canada in the 16th. I suppose it was trappers, fishermen and itinerant traders at first in Canada: certainly there seems to have been little of note until the 17th century. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 19:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Google books

You probably already know this but Google books now has books like James Pycroft's Cricket Field & Cricketiana, Lord Hawke's History of Yorkshire CCC, WG's Cricket and some articles like this Tintin (talk) 09:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

I, Dweller award JH a cricket barnstar for excellent, detailed work on Bodyline Dweller 10:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wisden 67

Can you please check the author the first article at History_of_Pakistani_cricket_to_1953#References. I seem to remember seeing it somewhere as Kardar, but the author's name is mentioned in the online Wisden archive. Tintin (talk) 19:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Tintin (talk) 02:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Also found the right Kardar article Tintin (talk) 02:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ISBN

You are right in every important respect. I have added the 0 and removed the tag. It is safe to do this for UK and some US books between about 1968 and 1972, I think. You can test on http://www.isbn-check.com/, or usually find the book on Amazon, Abebooks, Libray of Congress etc. by clicking on the ISBN. Best wishes, Rich Farmbrough, 11:09 20 December 2006 (GMT).

[edit] Wilfred (not F!) Rhodes

Er. It comes from my imagination. Well spotted!. :) Sam Vimes | Address me 19:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I think I've heard about the Cardus thing. Might find a way to incorporate it. Sam Vimes | Address me 22:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sydney Pardon

Sorry, his obit in Wisden 1926 doesn't mention place of birth or death. The exact birth date comes from the annual list of births and deaths of cricketers in most Wisdens. Johnlp 19:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree entirely about the diminished Births and Deaths and the List of Tests played. I am also, as I get older, more and more annoyed by the now very small type. Why Wisden can't be produced as a two-volume box set, rather than having to be crammed into a format that worked when the game as a whole was smaller, baffles me. They jettison some traditions that were useful – the sections you mention – but persist with one that constricts and constrains the overall usefulness. (End of rant.) Johnlp 21:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Well in Pardon's day, of course, it was in two parts, though within the same volume. Part I of the 1926 edition that I've been looking at has 340 pages and includes the Notes, the features, the records (including Births & Deaths and the list of Test cricketers), the public schools, the obits and the laws. Part II is the record of the 1925 season and runs to 680 pages. Page 340 of Part I (the 1926 calendar) faces Page 1 of Part II (the start of the MCC report). Mind you, some of the stuff that's in the old editions really should have been discarded: 1926 has a 35-page article by H. S. Altham on Public School cricket! Johnlp 21:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Starting times

I would like to know the starting time for the domestic matches in England - is it 10:30 am or 11:00 ? Was/is it the same for one day matches also - whether they are/were 40/50/55/60 over games ? Tintin (talk) 07:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Tintin (talk) 12:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nigel Plews

Thanks for contributing! Can you believe the original stub was speedied, without notification? --Dweller 22:05, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah! OK, see WP:SPEEDY. --Dweller 22:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] West Indian cricket team in England in 1988

Hi. Tintin thought you might be able to help with this... A reviewer rightly pulled me up for some OR in this article. I've begun fixing it, but I'm short of references to humiliation, chaos in the England camp, crushing victories etc I think these are essential to tell the story fully - that summer and the craziness with the 4 captains, was all about a team in turmoil due to overwhelming defeat after defeat, but my opinion's not worth a jot here of course! :-) I think you've got access to Wisden online - could you help with some quotes/citations along these lines? --Dweller 10:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cricket History 1816 to 1863

John, I apologise for the length of this but you might find it useful. Just delete anything you don't need. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask if you want anything looking up as I might have a reference. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 07:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

1816: Formation of the Manchester club which took part in a number of important matches until Lancashire CCC was established in 1864. Manchester were representative of Lancashire as a county in the same way that Sheffield and Nottingham represented Yorkshire and Notts.
1817: Sussex v. Epsom at Lord’s was a five-day match. William Lambert guested for Sussex and scored two centuries (107* & 157) in the match, the first player to achieve the feat in top-class cricket.
1819: First recorded instance of the Cambridge University v. Cambridge Town Club fixture that became almost annual until the 1860s. It was also the earliest major match to involve either team.; There was a very fine line between Cambridge Town Club and Cambridgeshire, the one dovetailing with the other. Similar scenarios were Nottingham/Notts, Manchester/Lancashire & Sheffield/Yorkshire.
1820: According to Wisden, the original Northants CCC was founded this year but was subject to substantial reorganisation and reformation in 1878.; Earliest mention of wicket-keeping gloves.; William Ward scored 278 for MCC v. Norfolk at Lord’s, the first known double century.
1822: In the MCC v. Kent match at Lord’s, John Willes of Kent opened the bowling and was no-balled for using a roundarm action, a style he had attempted to introduce since 1807. Willes promptly withdrew from the match and refused to play again in any important fixture.; Roundarm was a natural reaction to the growing predominance of batsmen over the age-old underarm style of bowling. Its adherents argued that the legalisation of roundarm was essential to restore the balance between batting and bowling. :However, high-scoring matches were still comparatively rare owing to vagaries in pitch conditions.
1825: Thurs 28 July. A schools match at Lord’s between Harrow and Winchester had just concluded and then, during the night, the pavilion burned down with the consequent loss of valuable scorecards, records and trophies. Thomas Lord claimed he lost £2600 in paid subscriptions, none of which were ever recovered. Which begs the questions of why it wasn’t in the bank and why he apparently wasn’t insured!; William Ward purchased the lease of Lord’s ground from Thomas Lord, who retained freehold. Lord had been proposing to build houses on the land which brought cries of outrage from the gentlemen players. Ward, a rich banker as well as a fine batsman, stepped in and bought the leasehold to save the ground for cricket.; Even so, it was many years before the famous ground’s future was secured. The lease was transferred to Mr James H Dark in 1835 and he retained proprietry till 1864. Then the freehold was sold in 1860 to a property speculator called Mr Moses for £7,000 and MCC did not bid! In 1864, MCC finally did purchase the freehold but paid £18,333 6s 8d for it with money advanced by William Nicholson. The lease expired same year and so, at last, Lord’s was owned in its entirety by MCC.
1826: A significant event that would in time accelerate the spread of cricket throughout England was the passage of an Act of Parliament on Friday 5 May that authorised creation of the Liverpool to Manchester Railway and effectively began the railway boom.; The Lord’s pavilion had been rebuilt in time for MCC’s annual dinner on Thurs 11 May.; Sussex was widely acclaimed as the Champion County although no formal league structure existed. It was the earliest known instance of a county championship being proposed. A situation similar to boxing developed in that another contender could challenge the champion.; Arthur Haygarth closed his Scores & Biographies Volume 1 at the end of the 1826 season.
1827: 4 June. Cambridge University v. Oxford University at Lord’s was the first University Match. It became an annual fixture in 1838.; The roundarm controversy came to a head before the 1827 season and MCC agreed to the staging of three trial matches between Sussex and All-England. Roundarm’s supporters made the grandiose claim that their campaign was a march of intellect. It is difficult to discern anything intellectual about propelling a cricket ball with arm outstretched vis-à-vis propelling it with hand below elbow, but there we are. What the bowlers were really after was of course to claim an advantage over the batsmen.; No firm conclusions were drawn in the immediate aftermath of the trials and it was many years before roundarm was formally legalised. But, in practice, roundarm was adopted in 1827 as its practitioners, especially William Lillywhite and Jem Broadbridge of Sussex, continued to use it with little, if any, opposition from the umpires.; Underarm bowling did not cease, even if it had been superseded. In fact, underarm survived roundarm. Underarm as a tactical alternative to overarm continued into the 20th century.
1828: Following the Sussex v. England roundarm trial matches in 1827, MCC modified Rule 10 to permit the bowler’s hand to be raised as high as the elbow. But, in practice, Sussex bowlers William Lillywhite and Jem Broadbridge continued to bowl at shoulder height and the umpires didn’t no-ball them.
1829: Earliest known reference to cricket in Worcestershire.
1832: Earliest reference to cricket in New Zealand is in a churchman’s diary.; 5 September. A notice in the Colombo Journal calling for the formation of a cricket club is the earliest reference to cricket in Ceylon (now Sri Lanka). The Colombo Cricket Club was formed soon afterwards and matches began in November.
1833: First use of Yorkshire as a team name (instead of Sheffield).; John Nyren published The Cricketers Of My Time. It had been serialised in The Town during the previous year.
1835: Powerless to prevent the use of roundarm, MCC finally amended the Laws of Cricket to make it legal. The relevant part of the Law stated: ‘if the hand be above the shoulder in the delivery, the umpire must call No Ball.’ Bowlers’ hands now started to go above the shoulder and the 1835 Law had to be reinforced in 1845 by removing benefit of the doubt from the bowler in the matter of his hand’s height when delivering the ball.; Nottinghamshire as a county team, and perhaps also as Notts CCC, played its first inter-county match v. Sussex at Brown’s Ground, Brighton on 27, 28 & 29 August. Previous matches involved Nottingham as a town rather than Notts as a county. Notts is recognised as a first-class county team from 1835.; The lease of Lord’s Ground was transferred to JH Dark, who remained proprietor until 1864.; 1835: 1st appearance in laws: compulsory follow on if 100 behind
1836: Although Sussex had been a major cricket centre since the 17th century, there had apparently been no move towards a permanent county organisation until 17 June 1836 when a meeting in Brighton set up a Sussex Cricket Fund to support county matches. It was from this organisation that Sussex CCC was formally constituted in 1839.; The inaugural North v. South fixture was held at Lord’s on 11 & 12 July.
1837: Kent was proclaimed Champion County and held the title for eight years until being deposed by Sussex in 1845. Mainstays of the Kent team in those years included Alfred Mynn, Fuller Pilch, Felix, EG Wenman and WR Hillyer.
1838: Melbourne Cricket Club founded.
1839: 1 March. Formation of Sussex CCC out of the Sussex Cricket Fund organisation that had been set up in 1836.

Sussex CCC played its initial first-class match v. MCC at Lord’s on 10 & 11 June.

1841: March/April. Formal creation of Nottinghamshire CCC (the exact date has been lost) although, as noted above, an informal Notts CCC may have been set up in 1835.
1842: 6 August. Formation of Kent CCC in Canterbury (reformed as the present club in 1859). Teams representing Kent had been playing regularly in first-class matches since the early 18th century but these were invariably sides raised by wealthy patrons.; The new Kent CCC played its initial first-class match v. England at the White Hart Ground, Bromley on 25, 26 & 27 August.
1844: 13 March. Foundation of Cambridgeshire CCC which played first-class cricket 1857 to 1871.; 28 August. A match on Hartlebury Common between Worcestershire and Shropshire is the earliest known instance of a county team in Worcestershire.
1845: Although several earlier county organisations had existed going back to 1709, the present Surrey CCC was formed at a meeting which took place at the new Kennington Oval during a match between two local teams on 21 & 22 August.
1846: The earliest first-class match at the Oval was Surrey Club v. MCC on 25 & 26 May. Only 194 runs were scored in the match with a top score of 13. WR Hillyer took 14 wickets to help MCC win by 48 runs.; Surrey CCC played its initial first-class match v. Kent at the Oval on 25 & 26 June, winning by 10 wickets.; Social conditions, including the railways, were a major factor in the debut of the travelling All England Eleven. The team was founded in Nottingham by William Clarke, who also opened the Trent Bridge cricket ground. The first AEE match was at Sheffield in September and they played others in Manchester and Leeds.; The All England Eleven played its inaugural fixture against a Sheffield XX in September. The AEE team was: W Clarke, J Dean, W Dorrinton, F Pilch, A Mynn, J Guy, W Martingell, T Sewell, G Butler, VC Smith and W Hillyer. Other players who represented the AEE in its early days included G Parr, FW Lillywhite, N Felix, W Denison, T Box and OC Pell.
1849: 23, 24 & 25 July. Yorkshire v Lancashire at Hyde Park Ground, Sheffield was the first match to involve a Lancashire county team and also, therefore, the first Roses match. Yorkshire won by 5 wickets.
1850: Re-emergence of Middlesex as a county team, largely through the interest of the Walker family that eventually founded the present Middlesex club.
1851: 11 - 12 February. Tasmania v Victoria at Launceston Racecourse was the initial first class match in Australia. Tasmania won by 3 wickets.
1852: The United All England Eleven was established as a rival to the AEE. J Dean and J Wisden were the main organisers and other players to represent the UEE in its early years included John Lillywhite, T Lockyer, J Grundy, F P Miller, W Mortlock and T Sherman.; 27 July. John Sherman made his final first-class appearance for Manchester v. Sheffield at Hyde Park, Sheffield. His career had spanned 44 seasons from his debut at Lord’s on 20 Sept 1809 when he played for Beauclerk’s XI v. Ladbroke’s XI. His was the longest first-class career span, equalled only by W G Grace.
1854: 1854: differential reduced to 80 (60 in one day)
1855: 26 - 27 March. Victoria v. New South Wales at Melbourne was the earliest first class match played by New South Wales. They won by 3 wickets.
1857: The AEE and UEE began an annual series of matches against each other that continued until 1869. The fixture was the most important of the season while it lasted. Two games were played in 1857, both at Lord’s and both won by the AEE.; AEE players in 1857 included: G Parr (capt), AJD Diver, HH Stephenson, J Caesar, RC Tinley, G Anderson, E Willsher and J Jackson.; UEE players in 1857 included: J Wisden (capt), J Dean, J Grundy, W Caffyn, John Lillywhite, T Lockyer, W Mortlock and W Martingell.; J Grundy became the first player to be given out handling the ball when playing for MCC v. Kent at Lord’s.
1859: 1 March. Formation of the present Kent CCC.; The earliest reference to a hat being presented to a bowler who had taken wickets with three successive deliveries, hence hat trick.; 21, 22 & 23 July. VE Walker of Middlesex, playing for England v. Surrey at the Oval, took all ten wickets in the Surrey first innings and followed by scoring 108 in the England second innings, having been the not out batsman in the first (20*). He took a further four wickets in Surrey’s second innings. England won by 392 runs.; 7 September. Departure of cricket’s first-ever touring team. A famous photograph was taken on board ship before they sailed from Liverpool. The team of English professionals went to North America and played five matches, winning them all. There were no first-class fixtures. The 12-man squad was: G Parr (captain), J Caesar, W Caffyn, R Carpenter, AJD Diver, J Grundy, T Hayward, J Jackson, John Lillywhite, T Lockyer, HH Stephenson, J Wisden.
1860: Freehold of Lord’s Ground sold to a Mr Moses for £7,000. MCC did not bid. JH Dark retained the leasehold until 1864.
1861: 7 March. A Match Fund Committee to run Yorkshire county matches was established in Sheffield, which had been the home of Yorkshire cricket for nearly 100 years. It was from this fund that Yorkshire CCC was founded two years later: an exact parallel with the formation of Sussex CCC from a similar fund (1836-1839).; HH Stephenson captained the first English team to tour Australia. No first class matches were played.
1862: 26 August. Surrey v. England at the Oval. Edgar Willsher of England was no-balled six times in succession by John Lillywhite (son of FW Lillywhite) for bowling with his hand above the shoulder. For some years previously, Willsher and others had bowled in this way and the incident at the Oval put the issue into context. The drama was exaggerated when Willsher and the other eight professionals in the England team walked off the field. Play continued next day but with a replacement umpire.
1863: 8 January. Formation of Yorkshire CCC out of the Sheffield Match Fund Committee that had been established in 1861.; Yorkshire CCC played its initial first-class match v. Surrey at the Oval on 4, 5 & 6 June. It was a rain-affected draw, evenly balanced.; 12 August. Formation of Hampshire CCC. A number of previous county organisations including the famous Hambledon Club had existed in Hampshire during the previous hundred years or more, but none had survived indefinitely.; 15 December. Formation of Middlesex CCC at a meeting in the London Tavern.; An organisation in Cheltenham is believed to have been the forerunner of Gloucestershire CCC, which had definitely been founded by 1871. Exact details of the club’s foundation have been lost.

[edit] Ranji Hordern

I think OxComp just said Pennsylvania University. I'll check after getting home. Tintin 10:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

The Oxford Companion says "University of Pennsylvania", so I'll edit the article accordingly. Tintin 11:08, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that Penn would have to be right. Pennsylvania State is invariably refered to as Penn State and is the less upperclass school of the two. Penn is the Perfect place for a visiting med student/cricketer. Are either of you going to be nominating this for DYK? I think that the additions on 15 and 16 February more than qualify it.--Eva ^bd 15:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll pass the buck to JH :-) Should the Rick Smith book be part of references or further reading ? Looks like it was not used in writing the article. Tintin 15:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

There is an interesting edit at [1]. That is the nickname that he uses in IRC, so it is probably really him. "Being bullied into retirement" is something that did not appear in the media. There was another bitter series of edits last year by an IP editor which must also be him. Tintin 00:14, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Will "being made to retire under the new regime" will cover both his opinion without being too harsh on the committee ? Tintin 05:57, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually I am a little surprised that he added something like this. He occasionally visits #cricket channel in IRC during matches. Two or three times I gathered the courage to talk to him and once in Feb 2006, I showed him his article. He seemed quite satisfied and said something on the lines that it was "short and cute" (I don't remember what the first adjective was, but the second one was "cute"), and that author would have probably got the data from the article on him in the Jewish chronicle. BlackJack, User:JackHearne and Roisterer are all members of ACS, so they may know the inside stories. Tintin 09:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Philadelphia

Sorry about the problem. I hadn't yet put everything into the ref format. I think it would be better to get it all done in my sandbox and add it whole hog to the article when completed. I'll try to remember to let you know when it's been done.--Eva ^bd 21:21, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I've now updated Philadelphian cricket team with the standard refs and some other slight modifications. If you can take a look, that would be great.--Eva ^bd 16:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 20 February 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ranji Hordern, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--ALoan (Talk) 17:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lord's

JH, are you very familiar with Lord's ? If yes, I have a couple of questions which I'll ask offline. Tintin 10:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Please see User_talk:Johnlp#Calcutta_Cricket_Club Tintin 07:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cricket

Hello, thanks for the clarification. BTW:I know 'centre' exists but i am not so sure of 'centres' (It was there on the article). Praveen 18:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WCOY

A user added a question in the article re. the announcement. Since I couldn't find it via a google, I changed it to a cn [2] Tintin 07:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wisden

Haven't quite left yet... it isn't very reliable to use a given company to assert their own importance in their marketplace (such as, relying on Google's figures to identify Google as the most-used search engine). This is an area where it is important to distinguish between primary and secondary sources. My main problem is with "...the operator of the world's highest traffic cricket website..." this is the only external source / reference on cricinfo, and it doesn't offer comparative statistics, only raw statistics. When you say someone is the biggest in an encyclopaedic article - your references really should be saying who comes next and by how far. Ga rr ie 10:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

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