Talk:Jimmy Connors
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- There is a conflict in the birthplace in the article and in the summary box at the right hand side of the page.
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[edit] Residence conflict
There is a conflict between the side box and the personal sections on where Connors lives. W.C. 20:24, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Missouri Project?
Can someone explain why the Missouri Project tag should not be removed from this article? It appears to be a mistake. Otherwise, I'll remove the tag. My suspicion is that someone programmed a bot to add it the St. Louis, Missouri project list without realizing that there are other states that have a St. Louis, such as Illinois, the one mentioned in this artilce. So I will just remove the tag for now. Feel welcome to reinstate it if you can justify doing so. W.C. 20:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Some forgotten Connors's victories by the ATP statistics
As written in some articles the ATP statistics are incomplete for the 1968-1972 era and completely absent for the pre-open era. The association was created at Forest Hills (U.S. Open) 1972 when for the first time of the year all players could compete in a same event : this partly explains why data are incomplete before 1973. You can see more informations on players' records in Tennis, male players statistics.
Moreover the ATP doesn't incorporate some special events of the 70s in particular those held by the WCT organization. So I have added 8 (at least) tournaments not listed by the ATP in the article and I have slightly erased the expression "ATP Tour" in Connors's list of wins. The ATP tour has really existed since 1990. Before there were several independant circuits. For instance in 1968 there were 1) the amateur circuit held by the International Lawn Tennis Federation (ILTF) and the national federations, 2) the National Tennis League (NTL) circuit held by the organization of the same name for its professionals under contract, 3) the World Championships of Tennis (WCT) circuit held by the WCT promoters and 4) the Open circuit. In the first half of the 70s there were mainly three circuits : the Grand Prix (GP) circuit (ILTF), the WCT circuit and the U.S. Indoor circuit run by Riordan, future Connors's manager. In the second half of the 70s and the first half of the 80s only the GP and WCT circuits existed. In particular with the ending of the WCT circuit and the players's need to control their own circuit, the ATP tour was created at the end of the 80s and the first one was held in 1990. Since players have lost much control. Then the "ATP tour" is not very adequate because Connors has not truly played that circuit.
So ATP statistics could be a better expression.
I have also tried to modify the Infobox informations but some don't appear :
Though Connors only turned pro in 1972 he began his international career in 1970, his first great performance was his win over Roy Emerson in the first round of the Pacific Southwest Open in Los Angeles. And he didn't retire in 1993 : he semi-retired in 1992 which was his last true season and then he sporadically played from 1993 to 1996. Finally in the doubles part of the infobox I've replaced 370 (1-Mar-93) by ? because it's nonsense to say that Connors was at best the 370th doubles player in the world. That ranking is coming from the ATP statistics which completely forget the 70s results : in the ATP site the oldest Connors's doubles ranking is dated from "3-Jan-83" but Connors was one of the best doubles players in the mid-70's when he played with his teammate, Nastase. Just look at the ATP statistics about his titles and finals : DOUBLES CAREER TITLES (15): 1980--North Conway; 1976--Birmingham; 1975--Salisbury, South Orange, US Open; 1974--Salt Lake City, Salisbury, Indianapolis, London; 1973--Baltimore, South Orange, Stockholm, Wimbledon; 1972--Columbus, Los Angeles WCT FINALIST (11): 1976--Washington, Denver WCT; 1975--London, Rome; 1973--Omaha, Los Angeles, Roland Garros, Quebec, Hampton; 1971--New York, Columbus.
Carlo Colussi 09:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Connors and Las Vegas and doubles rankings
- I maintain that Connors highest doubles ranking is a nonsense
- Las Vegas May 1977 is listed by the ATP : I've just cited it in order not to confuse with the November Las Vegas WCT tournament Carlo Colussi 16:05, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
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- The doubles ranking may indeed be "nonsense." But substituting your opinion in the article violates Wikipedia policy WP:NPOV. If you can find a published source that provides a higher doubles ranking for Connors, then you may change the text and cite that source. Until then, the InfoBox calls for a doubles ranking for Connors, and the only source we have so far is the ATP.
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- Please start new topics on discussion pages at the END of the page. Thanks. Tennis expert 18:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Supposed unofficial titles
I've changed the section title "Other singles titles (unofficial) (15)" in "Other singles titles including invitational tournaments titles (15)" because if some tournaments have been just invitational ones other were completely official but forgotten or not included by the ATP : for instance Jacksonville 1971 or Las Vegas WCT 1977 or Puerto Rico WCT 1979.
Do not forget that tennis has existed for a century before the ATP and that the ATP statistics of the start of the open era are very incomplete : for instance for 1969 the ATP Website just shows three meetings (Australian, Philadelphia and US Opens) between Roche and Laver whereas in reality Roche led Laver 5-4 that year : January 19, Roche won the New South Wales Open in Sydney 64 46 97 1210 over Laver in the final ; January 25 or 26, Laver beat Roche in the semifinal of the Australian Open, Brisbane, 75 2220 911 16 63 ; February 3, Roche b Laver in the New Zealand Open final, Auckland, 61 64 46 63 ; February 9, Philadelphia Open final, Laver b Roche 75 64 64 ; February 13 or 18, Hollywood (Florida) Pro final, Roche b Laver 63 97 64 ; February 26 or 27 or 28, Oakland Pro final, Roche b Laver 46 64 119 ; May, Amsterdam Pro 3rd place, Roche b Laver 63 36 62 ; September 7, US Open, Forest Hills, final, Laver b Roche 79 61 61 62 ; November 22 or 23, Wills Open Covered Courts, Queen's Club & Wembley Arena Laver b Roche 64 61 63.
Many tournaments of that era are missing, for example the Dunlop Sydney Open in March 1970 (winner Laver) or the 1973-1974 New South Wales Championships (winner Mal Anderson and Tony Roche) or the 1970 US Indoor Open tournament in Salisbury (winner Nastase) or the 1970 Wembley Pro tournament (winner Laver).
So the ATP statistics being very incomplete until the 70s other statistics shall not be considered as unofficial. Though the ATP claims that Connors is the player having won the most titles (105) it is completely untrue : Rod Laver (with at least 181 wins), Bill Tilden, Jaroslav Drobny and Ken Rosewall have won more tournaments than Connors. ATP statistics are just open era statistics far from being exhaustive for the first years of that open era and ATP Statistics are not the only official statistics.
Carlo Colussi 09:05, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
