User talk:Jogers
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[edit] Capitalisation
I wasn't aware there was a standard capitalisation of the English language, but in consideration of the image on When the Sun Goes Down, shouldn't it be at When The Sun Goes Down as per the artist's choice? Dmn € Դմն 23:30, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- It should be When the Sun Goes Down as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions. Jogers 23:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] mb20
Please stop incorrectly capitalising the band's name. The name is not capitalised, as per:
The Official 'Site
Last.FM
The mb20 Official Fan Club
The Naming Convention on Their Album Covers
Please stop and revert back your edits. Any more edits of this nature and i will warn you for vandalism, as you now know better. Cheers, Jonomacdrones (talk) 11:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- My edits are in line with Wikipedia:Naming conventions. See also Talk:Matchbox Twenty#Requested move. I suggest that you take a closer look at Wikipedia:Vandalism before you warn me. Jogers 11:21, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Then surely the procedure then is to put a disclaimer on, which makes mention of the capitalisation being for technical reasons. Besides, the naming conventions refer to the article name, not how it is spelt in the article. Cheers, Jonomacdrones (talk) 11:31, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- The article mentions that the band name is sometimes typeset as "matchbox twenty" which is perfectly enough. Technical restrictions are not the case here. Jogers 11:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
The naming convention is a technical restriction on wikipedia pages, and the article should state this, wikipedia is the only place, minus unofficial, amateur and non-expert 'sites, where i have seen the capitalisation. If i renamed Microsoft as Micro$oft and claimed it is sometimes typeset as Microsoft, would this work just as fine? in both cases the official spelling has been replaced with a wiki-friendly version and not explained as such. Cheers, Jonomacdrones (talk) 11:58, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, most pages I found on Google refer to them as "Matchbox Twenty". Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks) is another relevant guideline: follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment. Renaming Microsoft to Micro$oft would be a good example if the company officially used the second spelling. In that case the article should be named just Microsoft and possibly mention the stylized typography in the lead section. This would be more similar to this case when "official" capitalization is replaced with proper one. Jogers 12:13, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
What most places do is irrelevant, the point i am trying to make here is that official sources spell it without capitalisation, as per here. Since mb20 is not trademarked, it doesn't come under the rules relating to trademarks. And whilst the band uses this spelling, would it, then, be correct to write mATCH bOX tWENTY? this is exactly the same spelling, is it not? Cheers, Jonomacdrones (talk) 12:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- What official sources do is less relevant than what secondary sources do. The proper capitalization in English language is "Matchbox Twenty". I'm not sure what is your point about "mATCH bOX tWENTY". Jogers 12:37, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, i should have made it more clear what i meant. My point is, one cannot claim official and unofficial spellings of a name has a bearing on capitalisation. Capitalisation doesn't have an effect on a spelling of a name as per a point i thought you were making a while back. To get back to the point. Official literature/ websites of the band write the name in lowercase and although there are rules about capitalising in article titles and capitalising trademarks, i can see no rule which says one must replace correct representations of the band name with incorrect ones. Cheers, Jonomacdrones (talk) 12:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- According to what some folks say at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (trademarks) the band name qualifies as trademark. Please, consider discussing your doubts there. Jogers 13:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
That refers to none english characters. Think about the absurdity created here, rules exist- but rules have exceptions. Cheers, Jonomacdrones (talk) 13:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- I don't follow. WP:MOS-TM refers not only to special characters but also says to "capitalize trademarks, as with proper names" and "follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment". I find this perfectly clear. The issue of non-standard capitalization of band names has been discussed on several occasions and as far as I know the consensus was always in favor of standard English capitalization. I don't see a reason to make an exception in this case. Jogers 13:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, i see what you're saying, but in my opinion the whole precedent is backwards, and in matters of capitalisation- the band's standard should be the adopted standard. I agree as with matters of the Prince logo and Korn, where its a character that is the problem, but when a band uses a particular case it should be the same here- even if only in the interest of accurate articles. The point is moot now anyway and we've kinda gone off topic but i will say this- in certain instances things need to evolve from simplistic rules and laws which do not take every eventuality. The rule of law states that in order to stay relevant rules must evolve- by using the artist's official capitalisation, we have a new precedent and the system works- otherwise too literal an interpretation, which granted- stops abuse and keeps everything to a similar standard, creates an absurdity. Cheers, Jonomacdrones (talk) 14:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- I see no absurdity here but consider sharing your thoughts at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (trademarks). Consensus can change although I find it quite unlikely in this case. There is nothing special about this band name that would differentiate it from The Pillows or Kiss among many examples of articles that sparked extensive discussions about usage of non-standard capitalization of band names in Wikipedia articles. I'm sorry I wasn't more convincing. Jogers 14:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I guess I just don't understand why the groups KISS, matchbox twenty, or the pillows cannot be left in their correct typeset. I understand the limitations of the actual page name, but if I was the creator of the name of a band and it was used incorrectly, I would not be very happy. There are references all over the Internet, including official ones, which show that the capitalization is NOT corresponding to the standard of the English language, and in most cases this was done on purpose. It is not an accurate representation of the name ... I thought one of the things Wikipedia tried to strive for was accuracy. Firerescuelieut 21:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] black tape for a blue girl related articles
Why on EARTH have you killed the capitalisation on all of these? That is NOT what they are called- the band makes a point of not capitalising their own name, their album names and their song names. Why did you change them all? J Milburn 14:54, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions, Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks), Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums#Capitalization and Wikipedia:WikiProject Music/MUSTARD#Capitalization. Jogers 15:02, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
So why capitalise them but not iPod, for instance, which is also a trademark? J Milburn 15:06, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- iPod is specifically discussed at WP:MOS-TM#Trademarks which begin with a lowercase letter. Jogers 15:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Exactly, why is it any different? Surely, that also covers band, album and song names? J Milburn 15:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- It is different because the second letter is capitalized as explained in the guideline. Jogers 15:13, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok, if you say so... J Milburn 15:30, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Removing covers from the chronology?
Why would you do that? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Central_Cartel#Discography —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tasco 0 (talk • contribs) 04:12, 5 April 2007 (UTC).
