Talk:John Simpson Kirkpatrick
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is more of a correction, than a discussion topic, but i noticed in the page for John Simpson Kirkpatrick that they state it's "ironic" for him to be an Australian Hero since he's English.
I agree that it is strange for him to be known as an icon here in Australia, but it's important that understand that for the early years, Australia was capable of what's known as "dual patriotism". This means that australian's did not see themselves as separate from the english empire- England was still the "motherland", even to those who were born over in Australia, and australians very much regarded themselves as the same as their english counterparts.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eccles fan (talk • contribs) 21:47, 27 March 2006.
 |
This article is supported by WikiProject North East England, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to North East England on Wikipedia. For further information or to participate, you can visit the Project page. | |
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale | |
| High | This article has been rated as high-Importance on the importance scale. |
== Also, ==
The article completely ignores Peter Cochrane's seminal work on Simpson, which analyses the myth and the reality. Simpson was also a socialist, a radical, and, a little shifty, as well. His heroism is not in doubt, but the 'saintly' image which he has been given is
61.68.1.4 10:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- I have now included the Cochrane book in the references and also tried to balance the article by including some more objective and factual analysis, mainly sourced from the article by Graham Wilson. I have also removed some of the more artistic interpretations about Simpson having been under constant fire or completely ignoring heavy fire etc, because there is just no objective contemporary source for that. Simpson seems to be a figure like Robin Hood or Ned Kelly: there is so much modern fable that it is hard to find what was actually true, and people react negatively when you do. --Mat Hardy (Affentitten) 05:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Portrait
It should be noted that after Simpson was killed, the task of evacuating wounded by donkey was then continued by New Zealander Lieut. Richard Alexander (Dick) Henderson. Also, one of the most famous paintings of 'Simpson' by Horace Millichamp Moore-Jones which apparently hangs at Australia's National Gallery (or is it called the National Gallery of Australia?), is actually a portrait of Henderson, painted from a photo of Henderson taken by a fellow New Zealander Sergeant James G. Jackson, New Zealand Expeditionary Force.
- Well it would be pretty hard for anyone to have painted a picture of Simpson when he only lived for about 4 weeks after the landing! :-) --Mat Hardy (Affentitten) 05:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Nominations for bravery
It needs to be said that whilst several people wrote personal comments attesting to Simpson's bravery, he was never actually FORMALLY nominated for anything beyond his MID. To say that his nominations were turned down by sceptical or petty bureaucrats is really quite untrue and is one of those myths about Simpson that seems to have taken root about 30 years ago and propogated from there. Whether "we" are admiring of Simpson's bravery or not is kind of irrelevant as well. Our admiration is based upon many of the stories that have questionable veracity.
To say that Monash reccommended him for the highest honours is disingenuous. Monash mentioned him in his dispatches. Which is why Simpson is credited with an MID. Check the Wikipedia entry for Mention in Dispatches and you'll see that the Monash quote is a classic example of one.
There is mention in the latest edit of Simpson being reccommended via his unit for a VC on June 3 1915. I'd like to see the citation for that. A unit CO's personal diary entry is not th same as an official VC reccomendation and every bit of research I have seen says there is no record of a VC submission for Simpson in the War Office. --Mat Hardy (Affentitten) 04:06, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Plagiarism
The sections recently added with the quotes from Simposn's commander, Monash etc seem to be plagiarised directly from http://www.anzachouse.com/simpson.shtml I think the quotes are a great addition because they provide a lot of material on the VC controversy, but the opinion and footnote numbers that have been pasted straight across are a bit naughty! Plus they are causing some page layout problems with the ext box formatting. --Mat Hardy (Affentitten) 04:29, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
