Talk:Joseph Ratzinger, Sr.
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I changed it from senior to Ratzinger, Sr, as you can see in other personalities such as Martin Luther King, Sr. and Martin Luther King, Jr.. Sr. is more commonly used than Senior, however.
Tan, 17:32, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The paragraph I cut, and that has now been put back. I don't think it makes the article any more interesting, to have a paragraph saying it is interesting to know about the Pope's father. It is better to let the article speak for itself. WP is not a newpaper, having to hold the reader's hand on that sort of thing. This guy is of interest as the Pope's father, but that is clear from the intro (as it should be).
Charles Matthews 15:21, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Thats a pretty good point, but Wiki policy is that we should not have articles on relatives of famous people, only if the relatives did something interesting or noteworthy. The whole thing with the Pope's dad was that, literally as soon as he was elected Pope the media brought up the whole Nazi background thing. It was then in less than 24 hours that the whole thing about Orpo/Hitler Youth/Polizei was all being talked about. That, in my opinion, is what makes Rat Senior noteowrthy of the article. I ask we keep that info in the article as its not misleading or untrue (which would be a valid reason for its removal). Thanks for your understanding! -Husnock 16:03, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] VFD Removal
The vote for deletion tag was placed by anon user and I see it as simple vandalism of the article to cause a stir. I say we should not take this vote seriously as Benedict XVIs father has been in the media extensively over the past two days. I took off the tag, but will differ to an Admin if they really think that is a deletable article. -Husnock 19:44, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Forgot to mention this before (sorry). A good case for having this article is the situation with the relatives of Adolf Hitler. There is a family tree list on his article page that includes relatives all the way down to his half nephew!. I guess the whole point is that people are often interested in the relatives of famous people. I agree, Wiki is not a family tree maker and if it simply a name and a date of birth/death that's not worthy of the article. This is a little different and I hope we can keep this article much as the articles on Hitler's family have been kept. I'm open to further discussion and we can go VFD if people really want to. Thanks! -Husnock 20:11, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
You really shouldn't have done that. Did you read the entry on VfD? The case that there is a policy against relatives is perfectly colourable. Charles Matthews 20:25, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I saw the anon user might have been a legit person. Thats fine. If so, the tag should go back in. We just have SO many problems with anaons going through adding VFD tags and Dispute notices that they are often taken as vandalism. My statements about this man stand on why he should ahve his article, with teh situation with Hitler's raltives a perfect example. If this gets deleted, then they should be deleted also. -Husnock 20:28, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Ending Deletion Vote
To those with the power to do this, can we possibly end the vote for deletion. Right now it is 15 to 4 to Keep it, over 2/3rds majority. I also plan on expanded this article even further. In fact, I e-mailed the Vatican Library last night asking for a picture of the Pope's father. Im sure they are rather busy, so I'll see if they answer. In any event, I aks that we end the vote as Keeping this article as is. -Husnock 14:46, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- No votes to delete, so it won't be deleted. Charles Matthews 15:40, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- The page mustn't be moved while the vote is on: but perhaps it should go to Ratzinger family? Depends a little what other good information is in the media. Charles Matthews 16:57, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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- The family move might be a good idea in the future but not right now. If things go well, this article will be expanded even more over the next few weeks. Im trying my best to find a picture of this man. Thanks as well to everyone who supported keeping this article and no hard feelings at all to those who wanted it emrged. That was a very good point and I see the logic. Lets just trying keeping it for awhile. P.S. to admins- any word on when we can clsoe the vote down? -Husnock 03:33, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] External link to Independent story
Should not have been cut. It is not true to say that there was just one reference to Ratzinger Sr. There was a reference saying Senoir was an anti-Nazi (VfD discussion asked for corroboration of this). But there was also this:
- Father Thomas Frauenlob, who runs the Traunstein seminary which Ratzinger still regularly visits, said that the young man was fortunate to have been admitted: "In the 1930s the seminary in many ways shielded the boys from Nazi ideology," he said. "His family knew right from wrong and they could cope."
So family means the parents here. There was something further on in the article, saying that some Traustein residents hid Jews and smuggled them to Switzerland. But, in a quote from a named resident, it says "... the Ratzingers were young and made different choices."
This all seems highly relevant. Give us a break. My adding this link would do more for the page than a photo, currently, since it bulks out the whole story.
Charles Matthews 15:40, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I thought the article was good, just that it would do better over at the Benedict XVI article since it mostly talked about him. Its pretty rough over there right now with the edit wars. I guess it could stay over here... -Husnock 15:45, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "Revealed"
"When it was revealed that Pope Benedict XVI had served in the Hitler Youth, such questions became even more pronounced."
It wasn't "revealed". Benedict wrote it himself in his biography, and it has been known for years. -- 83
He didn't "serve" in the Hitler Youth, just like you don't "serve" in the youth organisation of other political parties. He was a member as required by law, and did never attend any meetings.
- You make good points about the wording. You should not however have removed the external link as 'spam'. Charles Matthews 15:51, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Closed deletion listing
On April 20, 2005, this article was listed for deletion. This discussion was closed with the result keep. This article will not be deleted. The discussion is no longer live, but can still be viewed: Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Joseph Ratzinger, Sr.. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 10:57, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
