Talk:Kitty Pryde

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Contents 1 RPG stats 2 Vital Statistics 3 New version 4 Corrections (10.10.05.) 5 Adamantium and Extra Notes on Powers 6 Shadowcat and Sex 7 Merge 7.1 Survey 7.2 Discussions 8 Cleanup 9 Move to "Kitty Pryde? 10 Move Survey 10.1 Survey 11 Tongue Kissing Parker 12 Ultimate Shadowcat 13 Ariel

[edit] RPG stats

I removed the following from the article because I really don't think RPG stats belong in Wikipedia. Since large numbers of these "vital stats" sections have been added to various articles, I'm using Talk:Strength level (comics) to discuss this issue in general. Bryan 08:24, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Guys, we don't have a picture of the lass! Or something's kooky with my computer, and I don't! Send one up! 62.194.121.100 12:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, it's been fixed, thank you! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 11:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Vital Statistics

• Name: Katherine "Kitty" Pryde
• Aliases: Sprite, Ariel, Cat
• From: Deerfield, Illinois
• Group Affiliation:
• Height: 5 ft. 6 in.
• Weight: 110 lbs.
• Eyes: Hazel
• Hair: Brown
  • Intelligence Level: Genius
  • Strength: Normal
  • Agility: Athlete
  • Reflexes: Athlete
  • Stamina: Normal
  • Speed: Normal, possibly greater in intangible form
  • Endurance: Incalculable (intangible form only)
  • Other powers and skills: Shadowcat possesses the ability to pass through solid matter by passing her atoms through the spaces between the atoms of the object through which she is moving. Utilizing her phasing ability she can also float in the air by becoming less dense than the molecules of air around her. She calls this "phasing". While phasing she is intangible and thus invulnerable, with the exception of some vulnerability to psionic attack, although psychics have a hard time reaching her mind in phased form. Her phasing powers also distrupt any electronic equipment she passes through. Shadowcat is a genius in the field of applied technology such as computers. She is an excellent hand-to-hand combatant as she was trained extensively by her one time mentor, Wolverine, in the arts of ninjitsu, aikido, and karate. She has had training in gymnastics and is a professional dancer.

[edit] New version

I removed the following since it's really about Pete Wisdom, not Shadowcat. It has been replaced with a link to the page about him.

Frelghra

During her Excalibur run, she also had a romantic relationship with the cynical, smoking, noirish :character of Pete Wisdom, a former Spy and Assassin attached to the shadowy British Intelligence :organisation Black Air. One can only assume the writers created Wisdom for the sole purpose of a bad :pun which was the title of their most loved Spin off series, Pryde and Wisdom. There appeared to :be some sort of Editorial Backlash against the smoking, swearing Englishman (Despite massive popular :appeal) and his connection to the normally sweet Shadowcat, and he was unceremoniously dropped after :a few issues, appearing later in X Force as the team leader. During this period, one insight into :Pryde's character can be seen- She has a very well hidden sadistic streak, which comes out when she :gets angry or distressed. Writers later capitalized on this.

I disagree with this, since if true, it is pertinent to Shadowcat's character, and how she is perceived by readers and editorial. My only problem with it is that it does not appear to be sourced/referenced. If the contributor who first wrote could provide a source for this behind-the-scenes factoid, then I would opine it should be restored, as it provides insight into the behind-the-scenes considerations of the character. Nightscream 10.13.05. 2:31am EST.

[edit] Corrections (10.10.05.)

Since my changes are a bit more extensive than what would completely fit in the Edit Summary field, I've explained them here:

First, I do not believe that the word "phasing" is one of Kitty's invention. Although I do not specifically recall when it was first used, I do not think it was merely what "she called" it. If I'm not mistaken, this assertion comes from the X-Men animated short film that featured Magneto, the White Queen and the Brotherhood, and which depicted Kitty joining the X-Men, in a continuity entirely separate from both the comics and the animated TV series that debuted years later.

Second, the notion of her Ariel and Sprite costumes being "ridiculously colored" is not NPOV, nor is the idea that she was the team's "mascot character", since she proved herself to be a competent member of the team to be reckoned with. I changed that to "brightly colored".

Third, the idea that Kitty lead a "carefree existence" after joining the X-Men is unsupported by any reading of those issues, in which her life was seriously threatened on a number of occassions. Looking through the issue where that monster attacked her when she was all alone in mansion by herself, or the issue where she was ruminating on the Brood egg inside her that would kill her hardly seemed "carefree." I changed that to "life of adventure".

Lastly, the notion that her crush on Collossus began when Professor X tried to place her in the New Mutants is flat-out untrue, as it clearly began when she first laid eyes on him in her first appearance, in X-Men #129, and was touched upon during that first storyline with the Hellfire Club. I moved the mention of the crush to fix that chronology. Nightscream 10.11.05. 10:45am EST.

Just one point - I can't find it right now, but I remember seeing an interview with Dave Cockrum where he actively described the costumes he designed for Kitty as ridiculous, or a synonym thereof, and said that was one of the few ways he could find the character interesting (that she was a teenage girl, and thus could get away with it).

And, c'mon - this is ridiculous :) - SoM 09:34, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

That's just so wrong on so many levels. :-) Nightscream Sat. 10.29.05. 11:49am EST.

[edit] Adamantium and Extra Notes on Powers

I don't ever remember Kitty having a problem passing through adamantium or vice versa. Surely with the number of times she's trained with Wolverine this would have come up. Unless someone can find a direct reference I'm going to take that bit out.

I can't find it immediately, but I will find it and it does exist - it was referenced in the Wolverine storyline where Sabretooth acquired adamantium bones. Kitty had a bad time when she tried to phase through them... --Mrph 00:06, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Got it. Wolverine #126, written by Chris Claremont. --Mrph 00:20, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, the "Added Note on the Interpretation of Kitty's Powers" however relevent does not need its own heading and so I'd be happy to move that up as a subheading of either Shadowcat's "Powers and Abilities" section or the movieverse Shadowcat section. Gnosis1185 22:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Most of it reads like Original Research so I'm fine with it going away. I moved it down earlier just because I didn't have time to do a proper edit. Still don't.  :-) CovenantD 22:37, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

You know what, I'm also going to get rid of the "Added Note" because it's very poorly written and doesn't even belong on the Shadowcat page. If anything it should probably be on the movie page but I really just don't have the heart to put it on there myself. Gnosis1185 22:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shadowcat and Sex

Am I the only one who thinks that it isn't very necessary to state the issue in which she and Colossus have sex for the first time? It seems like it is in bad taste to me. I feel that something about them having resumed their relationship would sit a little better. Thoughts? Gnosis1185 14:50, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about the relevance of the issue number, but it might be good to reinclude the tidbit I read in this article earlier, about how when Shadowcat and Colossus actually did the deed, she phased through the floor. It might provide interesting insight into her powers and how they're affected (i.e. emotionally). Of course, I could be full of crap - no offense meant if anybody doesn't agree. As to Gnosis' question, it might be important to mention the consummation of their relationship (w/ or w/o phasing) just because it's a milestone in their relationship. Achin4aiken15 22:43, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I updated the entry on her powers, namely that she has to focus on being tangible; this might help you understand why she fell through the bed while with Peter. As far as noting the issue number, it is trivia that could be usefull in some contexts, like dating the conception of a possible child. If the wording of the entry is offensive, it could be reworded more scientifically, but I think the issue # is worth noting.Dorin 08:11, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

She had sex outside of marriage?!?! What the hell issue was this in?!? I thought she was a practicing Jew...they believe such things are immoral. That's totally out of character for a pracicing Jew!! Marvel writers are screwed up, man. --Promus Kaa 19:05, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

She's been all up on Pete Wisdom and Piotr Rasputin; in Astonishing X-Men, she lost control of herself during climax and reverted to her default, phased state, falling through the floor naked behind a student. That is hottt!!! Also, Claremont apparently didn't want to make her an adult yet when he was writing Mekanix or whatever, but because Warren Ellis had already written a sexual relationship between Pryde and Wisdom, it would have created a pederastic situation in the previous comics. Don't take my word for the last bit; I can't recall where I got that info, so I should do some research to find a reliable source on that. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 21:36, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

She had sex with Pete Wisdom, too?!?? Marvel writers are now officially screwed up. And I see nothing "hottt" about the phasing-through-the-bed thing, I think it's rather disgusting and not something that should have been written for her character as it's OUT of blasted character. She's a practicing Jew...she wouldn't have had sex with either Peter outside of marriage. --Promus Kaa 03:54, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

All the practicing Jews I know have lots of premarital sex. They can't get enough of it. But I can only speak for the practicing Jews I know and I don't feel it's appropriate to generalize. The issue is important for the article. Your outrage enough signifies that it is notable enough to belong. -- Chris Griswold (☎☓) 06:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

How many "practicing Jews" do you know?? And how does my outrage signify anything about this staying?? I'm not asking that it be removed...I was just shocked to learn about it. And I'm mostly mad at Marvel, not you people. They should PAY for this outrage!! Defilation of character... And I resent your "they can't get enough of it" comment. That was uncalled for and insulting. I just hope for your sake that there aren't any other Jews here. >:( --Promus Kaa 17:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Why would you be insulted by something I said about a few of my friends who happen to be Jewish but do not represent all Jews? The fact that anyone might be upset with Marvel about this indicates that it is significant. That's all. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 23:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

As a Jew, I'm rather more insulted by Promus Kaa's haste to condemn ("she had sex outside of marriage?! sinner!") and overgeneralize ("ALL Jews believe X") than by ChrisGriswold's amusing anecdote. Not all practicing Jews are orthodox. You might as well scream bloody murder at the Thing for not regularly attending synagoguge; every religious person practices their beliefs in a slightly different way. It's as unrealistic, extremist, and absurd as dismissing the ethicality or character consistency of every fictional Christian who has ever had extramarital sex. Christianity's stance against extramarital sex is just as strong as Judaism's—but people will be people. And God bless them for it. -Silence 03:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I never condemned anybody other then the Marvel writers, and I never said that "ALL JEWS BELIEVE X." Don't put words into my mouth; I never generalized, it was ChrisGriswold who generalized about "ALL Jews" in a way that I found insulting. The Thing isn't a practicing Jew, so of course he doesn't attend synogauge. I just meant that people who actually practice their religion er..."religiously" (no pun intended) usually follow the rules of their religion. Since Pryde is a practicing Jew, I found it out-of-character that she would have sex with either Peter. And why the hell is this turning into a "flame Promus Kaa" discussion??!? --Promus Kaa 22:01, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, my point was that I don't appreciate such generalizations, an I find it rather rude and incorrect to say I generalized at all. My Jewish friends like to have pre-marital sexual intercourse; this has no bearing on anyone other than my very human Jewish friends. Who really like sex. So far, you have in fact dictated what praciticing Jews do and do not do, and I have not done the same. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 06:09, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

No, I know and you know that you made a generalization about practicing Jews that I'm sure other practicing Jews would have taken offense at. I've never dictated anything, Judaism dictates rules to Jews; rules that practicing Jews usually follow. That's all I've ever said. Now if we could stop fighting about this, that would be awesome. --Promus Kaa 17:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

was Kitty really a practicing Jew? Streamless 19:21, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

You;d think she'd have it down pat by now. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 21:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

To my understanding, it was Warren Ellis writing the Wisdom/Pryde relationships. I think what's more screwed up than a nice girl dating a bad guy (oh no, that NEVER happens..) is someone calling Warren Ellis a "Marvel Writer." I'm sure he'd love to hear that.. - J Salem Gourley

I'm sure he likes cashing his paychecks, though, too.--Chris Griswold (☎☓) 01:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Touche, Sir Griswold. I think Mister Kaa failed to take into account two things. He's calling "Marvel Writers" screwed up, when it's Warren Ellis who was the only one covering the Pryde/Wisdom relationship; Marvel knew what they were getting into when they hired him. You think Kaa's read any of Warren Ellis's other books? -J Salem Gourley

[edit] Merge

Per the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics#Proliferation of Ultimate character articlesWP:COMIC talk page, Ultimate character entries should be merged into the character's main article.--Chris Griswold 05:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

• Merge--Chris Griswold 05:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge Dr Archeville 15:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• No Merge--Mr Wednesday 21:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge' -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 14:52, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge T-Man 09:11, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Closed with CONSENSUS TO MERGE CovenantD 17:00, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussions

Once again the Ultimate characters are their own person. Their becoming a bigger hit than any of the other Ult Universes. Let them be.Mr Wednesday 21:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

The only primary dif I can see between US and S is the Peter Parker relationship. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 14:52, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

This article needs copy editing. --Chris Griswold 01:37, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I've given the intro and char bio a pass, will try to get to the other sections soon -Markeer 22:25, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, done passes at all sections. I'd suggest another editor take a glance at it for overall readability, particularly (as per current tag) whether it would make sense to someone reading it having never heard of the character before. -Markeer 19:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I've done some additional work. I think it's okay apart from the usual controversies about such articles (too much of an in-world perspective? legitimate use of primary sources?). Metamagician3000 04:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Tried to cut down some sections that had some extraneous information in hopes that it now contains the pertinent information (in keeping with the trend that WP is not a plot summarizer). Maybe someone can check it out to make sure I didn't edit something major out. I also tried to edit everything to the present tense. --Silver lode 05:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Anyone think we can remove the cleanup tag? --Silver lode 03:35, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

The article is definitely in better form than it was some time ago, I'm removing the tag but let's keep this talk section active for awhile. -Markeer 16:54, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move to "Kitty Pryde?

Anyone else think the article should be renamed Kitty Pryde? my reasons are multiple codenames (like jean grey) and what are most people likely to type searching for this article. Exvicious 10:12, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it matters either way because if you search Kitty Pryde, it redirects you to Shadowcat. But if people want to move there and have it redirect the other way that seems fine too. --Silver lode 16:39, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Move to Kitty Pryde. Definitely. She has lots of codenames, and per WP:CMC naming conventions, her article should be her "real" name. Additionally, Kitty Pryde is the most recognizable name; see Weezer's song "In the Garage", for instance.--Chris Griswold 08:48, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Agree, move - 15:49, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't like the idea of it being named "Kitty Pryde" I know she has numerous codenames but she is sticking with Shadowcat now! In Astonishing she is call Shadowcat! Cyclops and Wolverine have numerous names as well however it displays their codename! I don't think Shadowcat's should be any different from the rest of the X-Men! - User: Pho3nixflame69 07:53, 2 September 2006

• In my opinion, Kitty Pryde is better than Shadowcat. I think it's fine, like the powerful Jean Grey. Lord Hammu (Talk)

Yeah but Jean Grey is different, when she's named Phoenix or Dark Phoenix it's because there's a whole other persona in her body and when the Phoenix Force is gone she is Jean Grey again, Shadowcat had two other codenames that have never been brought up, she's always been known as Shadowcat since the name appeared in the 80's, even in X-Men: Evolution she was known as Shadowcat!!! User: Pho3nixflame69

It doesn't matter what she is doing now; it matters what she is best known by. The majority of people don't know who who Shadowcat is, but they have a better chance of knowing who Kitty Pryde is because she's character in a movie and mentioned in a variety of pop culture. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 19:28, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't that really matters, people will then learn her real name besides Shadowcat. I think it's only fair seeing as all the other X-Men are titled as their codenames! user: Pho3nixflame69

This page should be called Shadowcat, Sprite and Ariel are old codenames.--Gonzalo84 19:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Real meeting of the minds here. How old is Pho, exactly? Feh. Anyway, there several characters in and outside of the X-Men whose articles aren't titled based on their superheroic moniker. Get over it. Wolv, Cyclops and Jean Grey are all major exceptions. Let's try...Carol Danvers, Jamie Madrox, Amanda Sefton and Neal Shaara. No? How 'bout Hal Jordan and Dick Grayson at DC? Also, Kitty herself is an exception in that even her most famous alias is not very notible, but her alter ego is based (name wise) on a semi-notible living person. Honestly.. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 15:40, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Well then change those names too, especially Multiple Man's! User: pho3nixflame69

No. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 04:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Wow, this is ridiculous, just change it to Shadowcat, how hard is that? (user: pho3nixflame69)

[edit] Move Survey

[edit] Tongue Kissing Parker

An unregistered user repeatedly has removed the picture of Kitty slipping Peter Parker the tongue, and the only real rationale given so far is that the user doesn't like it. One of the major differences in the Ultimate version of the character is that she knows what Spider-Man's tonsils taste like, and so this is a pretty representative image. Half of the Ultimate section is about their Ultimate lip-locks. Please, if you want to remove the picture, at least give a better rationale. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 23:31, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ultimate Shadowcat

While web-slinging in Peter's arms in Ultimate Power #2, she seems to be chosing an codename. I don't read Ultimate X-Men, so I don't know if they refer to her in the missions, or even in the massion, as Shadowcat. Do they just call her Kitty? If so, we should add that, since something similar happened to the Ultimate F4 and such info is in their article. Kajito 20:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we need to speculate on whether she is going to have a codename. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 21:14, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Removed nonsense about "not even having an educated IQ." IQ is stable with age and gives no indication of being dependent upon education.

[edit] Ariel

Somebody please help me. When was Kitty ever called "Ariel"? Did the name first appear in "New Mutants," because I'm collecting Uncanny X-Men (I don't have the Brood Saga) and I read about Kitty complaining about the name "Sprite" in #169, but between that and her leave of absence as of #183 (after which she returns as "Shadowcat,"), there's nada about "Ariel." All I know is she rejected the name when Professor X first proposed it when she joined the team, and after her return as Shadowcat, several Sentinels from the future (Nimrod and the Omegas) called her "Ariel". When was Kitty referred to as "Ariel"?

If I recall correctly, the first time that Kitty was in the danger room, in uniform for the first time, Professor X suggested the codename "Ariel," but Kitty immediately shot it down, and decided to go by the suggested codename of "Sprite" (so long as no one joked about pulling her tab...), so I really don't see how she could have "gone by" the name "Ariel" at all, really (unless it was in one of those weirdo alternate universe thingies). --68.217.193.72 14:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

a google search told me that Kitty's first appearance as Ariel was in X-Men 171 in 1983. Hope this helps you vanis314 13:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)