Talk:Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte

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In his upcoming book, "My Tank is Fight", Zack Parsons has devoted an entire chapter on this über-tank. Reference to the book: http://www.amazon.com/My-Tank-Fight-Zack-Parsons/dp/0806527587/sr=8-1/qid=1157480506/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0835481-1880162?ie=UTF8&s=books Hugo Dufort 06:22, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Turret completed?

In most of the more reliable sources I've read, the turret was NOT built, and nothing ever came of the project. The turret in Norway actually was the Gneisnau turret, and the P-1000 had nothing to do with it. I'd like the author of this entry to cite any reputable sources on the validity of the claim that the turret was, indeed, completed and sent to Norway.

[edit] My tank is fight image

The book includes a concept drawing for what it'd look like: http://i.somethingawful.com/booklist/wallpapers/ratte_1600.jpg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Havermayer (talk • contribs) 05:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC).

• The article on the P-1000 has already been deleted twice, at least. Repeated AFDs have been unable to find scholarly data on its existence. I trust this Mr Parsons has some actual data to back up the existence of the "Ratte" project. --Agamemnon2 20:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Parsons, hoax, and deletion

I've reverted the incorrect claim that this is a hoax originated by Parsons. It may still be a hoax, but if so, it's a much older one.

1. I contributed the initial revision of this article in August 2004. I can't tell the exact date now because the article failed AFD in June 2006 and was deleted (along with its revision history) before being recreated in August 2006 after Parsons book was released. (This recreated version remains substantially similar to my original text, which is perfectly fine, but the record of the original contributors has been lost, which is mildly irritating as well as technically a GFDL violation.)

2. I created the article by following a red link on the Panzer_VIII_Maus page, using as source material the page on actungpanzer.com and the page on panzerschreck.de. I don't remember finding any other sources on Google at that time. Neither of those pages appear to have anything to do with Parsons.

3. In June 2006 the article was nominated for deletion by User:TomTheHand for failing WP:V. TomTheHand stated that he knew about the tank from internet tank forums for years, but when trying to track down a proper source found just how sketchy the available info was. The nominator did a remarkable amount of work before and during the AFD to save the article, including two trips to a university library. During the AFD Parsons then-upcoming book was mentioned only briefly as it seemed to be derived from the existing material and was not an acceptable source in any case. There was a rumour of a German language source but nobody was able to track down a copy. The achtungpanzer webmaster, George Parada, turned out to be a fairly reputable amateur historian and the author of at least one published picture book of "crazy stuff the Nazis nearly built", but did not reply to the nominators email asking about his source for the Ratte material. In spite of my initial bias toward saving the article, I was forced to agree with TomTheHand that the article did not meet the WP:V standard and voted for deletion.

4. The article was deleted, but was later (almost immediately) recreated by someone else. This was almost certainly an innocent mistake since all the above useful information, history, and consensus was buried when the article was deleted (although I see the AFD disussion is still available, if you know exactly where to look, at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/P-1000). This has caused me to rethink the wisdom of the slash-and-burn salt-the-earth deletion policy, especially as it pertains to articles that will inevitably be recreated. Prominently tagging the article as questionable may have worked out better in the long run. (Protecting it from recreation may have worked as well, at the cost of evoking confusion and outrage in users blocked from recreating it but without being told why.)

--Saucepan 18:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

• I recreated it once, bona fide, and when it was deleted, I requested a protection from recreation in a related AFD (for the "Monster") but nobody bothered to listen. Until someone digs up a verifiable source, it is my opinion this thing should be kicked out. --Agamemnon2 20:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

• I think Achtungpanzer.com is the original source of this hoax. Perhaps it was even created as a Nihilartikel. --Agamemnon2 16:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• I'm more a wiki-reader rather than wiki-editor, but this has caught my interest. A quick google doesn't find any results (in English) that don't simply refer back to this page. It does appear that this tank is an uban legend more than a reality (how we have such precise technical data on a myth is beyond me). If this counts as an urban legend, would it not be better to keep the page, rather than deleting it which will just spawn remakes of it, but make it clear that the tank is a myth? (if indeed it can be proven [if such a thing is possible] that it's just a myth). 81.157.152.11 22:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

• The technical data is rather dubious. For example, ground pressure would be somewhere in the range of 2500-2800 PSI. A quick calculation with the data on the Maus (188 tons) leads me to believe this to be complete gobbledegook (the Maus could only inflict that much pressure if its total ground contact area were approx. 165 square inches). Mind you, these are all very broad, highly inaccurate calculations. --Agamemnon2 13:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)