Talk:Leonidas I
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[edit] Go Tell the Spartans
Is this quote attributed to Leonidas in the Britannica entry? I've more commonly seen it attributed to Dienekes, a Spartan soldier at the battle.--Eric 04:28, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Deleted text
The following anecdote was deleted from the article:
The Persian envoy attempted to intimidate the Spartans by telling them Xerxes had so many archers, their arrows would "darken the sun". Leonidas replied, "So much the better. We shall fight in the shade."
Anyone know why it was removed? I thought it was an interesting quote that gave some characterization to the subject. I found a description of the exchange in a published collection of miltary biographies, if it's a question of authenticity. The poster who removed it left no explanation. MK2 03:24, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
And now it's been removed again. As I said, I found the quote in a reasonably credible source. I have no problem with it being deleted if it's not accurate but could someone actually step in here and share the facts with the rest of us. If nothing else, the rest of the paragraph needs to be rewritten if the middle of it is removed. MK2 04:54, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The quote is misattributed. It is not a quote of Leonidas. It appears in Herodotus and is attributed to Dienekes. And it's inaccurate anyway; the story of Persian arrows darkening the sky was brought to the Greek lines by a terrified Greek villager, not a Persian envoy.--Briangotts 14:46, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
In Frank Miller's 300 (comic book) its delivered by an Envoy dude, inaccurate, but still a great comic. Highlandlord 11:43, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
There is no historical evidence that supports any of that jarbish of fighting in the shade. but again, one heck of a film.
Well yes, if you look about 3 lines above you it was mentioned that the line comes from Herodotus.
[edit] Molon Labe
I wanted to note on the page that the quote "Molon Labe" has become an increasingly popular rallying cry among the pro-gun movement, at least in the United States. It's often seen as a cry against people who attempt to pass laws that would ban the sale, or try to confiscate arms. "You want my AR15? Come get it." As I am new to wikipedia, I figured I'd be better off posting here first to get opinions from the people maintaining this page. Thanks. iygijg
IMO it has nothing to do with ancient history.Dejvid 23:15, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Lord Rules
[edit] Lizard King
Ηταν ένας μεγάλος πρωτεργάτης της αντίστασης κατά των Περσών,αφού αψηφησε τρομερά το μεγαλήτερο στρατό που υπήρξε ως εκείνη την εποχή.Για τον λόγο ότι οι Σπαρτιάτες πίστευαν πολλή στην θρησκεία τους οι Βασηλία της Σπάρτης επέλεξε κάτι που δεν ήταν πολλή καλό για αυτήν. Ακολουθόντας των χρισμό του μαντείου για τον προτότοκο γιό ξεκίνησαν 300 και κάτι πολεμικες μηχανες για το πιο θερμές πύλες της ιστορίας με αρχηγό έναν από τους βασηλιάδες τους τον Λεωνιδα. Οι μέρες της μάχης ήταν σχετικά λίγες ομως οι αναλογίες εδείξαν το μεγαλείο των Ελληνικων στρατευμάτων, αφού μέσα σε 4 ημέρες βεβήλωσαν 10000 βάρβαρους μπροστά στα μάτια του βασηλιά τους όπου παρακολουθούσε την σφαγή του κράματος που είχε για στρατό!!Η αποδειξη του μεγαλείου του Λεωνιδα φάνηκε τις τελευταίες ώρες τις μάχης δίνοντας την διαταγη στους υπόλοιπους Έλληνες να φύγουν με μια εντολη...να πουν αυτα που έγιναν και ότι παρέμηναν οι Σπαρτιατες μέχρι τέλους υπηρετόντας τους νόμους Λακωνίας.
- That's just ...nonsense. And your spelling is awful! 77.49.2.144
[edit] Question
I once heard that when asked for military aid, Leonidas would send one man. Apparently this goes along with the saying "One man, one riot, one ranger." Can anyone explain this?
I want to learn more about this person! Is there anyone who can help me understand who he is a little bit better than I already do? thanks!!!!!!!!!
Ditto, Leonidas seems like a very interesting person. Try looking in a good library, or a prevelant university libary.
Re "one riot, one ranger"- see here http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/texas_rangers/
I am highly skeptical that Leonidas would send one Spartan as aid- their strategy was to use the phalanx to break apart enemy lines and then kill the enemy. This is impossible without a group of similarly trained and equipped people doing same thing alongside.
Re: It is not Leonidas but Spartan policy/law/tradition that sometimes when Greek states asked for military support or aid, only one man was sent instead of a contingent of hoplites. That one man was usually a well trained Spartan general or military advisor in strategy, tactics and training. He would be sent to the Greek sate/ally in need and train/prepare or lead their army. This was especially common when Spartans were at war themselves (i.e. with the Aegina their perpetual domestic rival) and unable to spare soldiers or when they were participating in the Carneian Festival.
Note* Sparta's domestic rival was Argos, Aegina was a common adversary of Athens.
[edit] Better Illustration, Please...
There exists an impressive statue of Leonidas that could be used to illustrate this article. Why insult his memory with a swishy 19th century painting of Leonidas daintily pointing his foot like King Louis XIV? It isn't a very accurate representation.
69.107.77.208 04:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)C. Poloynis
[edit] King Leon
Leon (king of Sparta) links here, which is kinda inaccurate as apparently King Leon is not a nickname but an ancestor from 590-560, so if someone who knows how (I'm noobish) could fix it please do. Highlandlord 13:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- If you think Leon is worthy of an article on his own, click on the King Leon link that appears just below the article title when you search on King Leon. Then edit away on the redirect page. An alternative solution would be to mention him in passing here on the Leonidas I page. (John User:Jwy talk) 14:54, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know anything about Leon, I was just checking out the kings of Sparta reading about him and clicking on Leon brought me here. I don't know if hes worthy of an article of his own, although most of the Agiads just say (name) Agiad King of Sparta ruled from (date) to (date), but I do know that hes Leonidas' grandfather and shouldn't direct to here. I just figured out right now how to get it to not redirect here, so fixing it. Highlandlord 00:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Fight for Leonidas' body
Leonidas fell in the thickest of the fight; the Spartans attempted to retrieve his body, but given the numbers they faced, the king's body was taken by the Persians.
Several sources, albeit modern perhaps, state that a small group of Spartans fought down the hill to retrieve his body:
When Leonidas was killed, he was some distance away. Some of the Spartans formed a tight group, fought their way to his body, picked it up, then fought their way back to the main group on the hill.
They demanded the body of Leonidas in return for the Spartan's lives, but the men refused to abandon the body of their King, declaring: "A Spartan leaves the field with his shield or upon it". --Asososocrates 06:56, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
...Xerxes felt remorse and, forty years later, Leonidas' corpse was returned to the Spartans.
This doesn't make any sense. After 40 years, a corpse is no longer a corpse. Slyfoxman7 08:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Corpse, what was left of it, so skeleton.
--- Well it also doesn't make sense considering that Xerxes was already dead 40 years after Leonidas was killed.
[edit] leonidas wife
the wife of leonidas, after the battle, became voluntarily became a sexual servant of Xerxes because, she moaned, that "no greek has the capabilities to please a woman".—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]).
- Can someone please provide a reliable source for this ?I have removed it since I have studied extensively the persian wars and I can't recall reading this anywhere .Thus I have removed it. I will check about what happened to Leonidas wife and I will add information about her... Tbere 23:38, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
This is pure vandalism and trolling, there's nothing to source. I'll report this sad fellow right away. Thanks for removing it Tbere. Miskin 23:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] quotes
i created a quotes section...if i did something wrong I am sorry I am still noob here and don't know much :P Tbere 02:07, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] gorgo queen of sparta
i created a small article about gorgo with all the info I managed to gather about her.if anyone is interested here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgo_queen_of_sparta
[edit] Temporary Protection
Does anyone think temporary protection may be needed for this article due to the near-release of 300(movie)? There has already been (at least) one vandal edit in regards to it.--William H. Bigsby 00:00, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
well i don't think so...I checked the history page and most of the vandalisms were minor with various refers to the movie...Nothing really major...If it get's worse and vandalisms happen more often then I think it would be ok.
- I do think so. Not only this, but all Thermopylae-related articles. Miskin 01:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Temporary protection is a good idea, I've had to fix this article, and reading other articles related to the film show rampant vandalism. -- Ennuified 15:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Unclear reference - trembler
The article near the end states:
A second Spartan, Pantites, was sent by Leonidas to attempt to raise support in Thessaly but returned to Thermopylae only after the battle's conclusion. Pantites hanged himself in disgrace after being shunned as a "trembler".
Anyone know what a "trembler" is? --64.242.28.5 20:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
i guess the guy who wrote this article was greek.He probably meant the one who trembles.This in our language means something like chicken in yours :)
[edit] 300 fim pic of Leonidas
It's only fair that someone dig up a pic of the 1960's version "The 300 Spartans" and the actor who played Leonidas. --198.254.16.201 22:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Vandalism Incoming
Incoming from World of Warcraft forums:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=84468596&sid=1 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Moheezy (talk • contribs) 18:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC).
- Thanks for the heads-up. I've temporarily semi-protected the page. Kafziel Talk 18:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Clean Up and Factual dispute
I have tagged this article for cleaning due to the factual problems and the fact that the article disputes itself about what happened after the death of Leonidas. There are many different sources that contradict some of the facts on this page. A History Channel documentary titled "Last Stand of the 300" has different numbers for the fources that stayed behind, also that documentary uses different qoutes, plus many other things. I know that this is only one source, but there are others. This article needs some help. K1000 23:12, 17 March 2007. (UTC)
[edit] Too many vandalisms
Suggest this article be locked -- there have been quite a few vandalisms. 199.5.204.100 14:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
This article is complete bullshit. Not historical at all, and sources are not credible. Methinks person who wrote this watched 300 too many times. I suggest someone with historical credentials rewrite the whole thing. Template:Unsigned:75.46.41.178
- It will probably tend that way until the movie fades away. But feel free to fix it with what you can cite. (John User:Jwy talk) 03:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] How many soldiers?
First the article states that "Leonidas went to Thermopylae with 300 of his finest soldiers and 1100 allies", then is says that he split his army, staying in the pass with the 300 spartans, 400 thebans and 700 thespians, while the others retired. Since I don't think that the number of soldiers who retired amounts to zero, there must be an error somewhere. 84.220.161.102 18:56, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I read that he took 7000 men in addition to his 300 Spartans. I got that from 'The Dangerous Book for Boys', which isn't exactly a dedicated history book, but it is suppossed to be educational so one would assume the writers researched it. Definetely a defenite source needed on this one. Phoenix1985 22:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
- The 300 is only ever presumed to refer to Spartiates (full Spartan citizens) and not the lower class Spartans, such as the Helot slaves, who probably made up the bulk of the 7,000 men. But guys, historians have been arguing the figures of Thermopylae for thousands of years, it's not going to be resolved here. Just accept that the best we can hope for are somewhat accurate estimates based on the accounts we have at our disposal. Conor 20:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
- Try to look for some sources at scholar.google.com or books.google.com to make it more easier just a suggestion. Lakers 07:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Leonidas took only 300 men. The rest of the 6700 were Greek allies who met Leonidas at Thermopylae and accepted Spartan command. They didn't come from Sparta. This is what Herodotus says and what is generally accepted. Miskin 11:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Also the dispute at Thermopylae is restricted to the numbers of the Persians not of the Greeks. But even there, a figure around 200,000 is generally accepted. Miskin 11:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
