Talk:List of EU people

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[edit] Practical Considerations

This seems like a classic illustration of why categories are better than lists. With the current structure, a Spanish actor must be added to two lists, the Spain list and the EU list. If this were a category, he could be added to the Spanish Actors category, which could then be added to the EU Actors category, or maybe just added directly to EU People category. Feco 21:30, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

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A listing of all notable Europeans seems like a bit much for one page.

I might accept listing some notable people from the European Union, as this page claims to do. But, the European Union did not exist during the lives of many of the people listed here. It would be a bit like claiming that Queen Elizabeth was a Roman, because she rules what used to be part of the Roman Empire.

I'll agree with both of those points (see namechange, etc)

List of Europeans can become a list of lists, perhaps (currently redirects

Martin

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DISCUSSION MOVED FROM VFD by Tannin 11:10, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

• List of EU people is no better than List of Europeans, discussed above (Feb 26). Kosebamse 07:28, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete, as above 131.111.8.96 16:15, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. It does not duplicate List of European people: not all European countries are in the EU. Jamesday 17:24, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. I think the point is not that they are the same, just that are equally as pointless. They both trivialise the culture and history of many people. Perhaps there would be use in having a list of politicians who were instrumental in the creation and politics of the EU. As it stands, this page offends me :-p Dmn 20:54, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • I'm an EU and European person. The list doesn't offend me in any way. Hard to see how people of any one state would be offended by including people in their state in this list, unless they are opposed to the EU, which isn't uncommon, since some see it as removing national integrity. Jamesday 20:30, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete: distinction between "EU" and "European" is silly -- nobody's gonna say to him/her self, "Oh, Frambolia is west of the Urals but scheduled for EU membership in 2010, so it must be on this list, or is it the other?" Wile E. Heresiarch 06:32, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)
    • Is it silly to distinguish between a list of US people and a list of American (the continent) people? That's what the two lists are doing and both are useful. Jamesday 20:30, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. -- Kaihsu 14:04, 2004 Mar 1 (UTC)
  • Keep. No harm. Anthony DiPierro 14:24, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, If we're going to have articles like List of Americans v. List of people from the United States might as well have this one too. The Cave Troll 19:54, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. The EU is not the same as Europe and it is not just a community of independent countries. It will have a constitution to prove it. I'm also a Portuguese, an EU and European Person.Pedro 21:09, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
• Delete. There is no such thing as an EU country, it's like having a List of African Union people, or List of Commonwealth people. It's not a country and trivialises and, in my opinion, dishonours the people it names. I very much doubt Nelson or Churchill etc would, if here, take too kindly to being included in such a list. Also, just ask most people across the world what country they would associate Tony Blair, Queen Elizabeth II or Napoleon Bonaparte with. I get the feeling it wouldn't be the EU. SoLando 21:17, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • Do You live in Europe? Do you really think that the EU is the same has the African Union or Commonwealth? The EU is a new and unique identity. Is not a country? the USA is not also a country.Pedro 01:27, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • I live in the UK. Now let's put it this way, from the British point-of-view. The EU has no recognition as a country in the world. The EU has no single armed forces (and it will not happen, at least not for many decades, and even then I doubt the UK will be part of). The EU has no single foreign minister (At the moment, it's doubtful the UK will ratify the constitution, due to a lot of opposition in Britain for an EU constituion, and calls for a referendum on the constitution. If such a referendum happened, the likely result would be No for an EU constituion). The EU is divided by language (In the USA the majority of people at least speak the same language). The EU is simply divided (Iraq War, UK's relations with the USA, and by the looks of it always will be). Rivalry in the EU is rather intense, just look at the rivalry between the UK and France, really, the only two major world players in the organisation. If they can't get along, there is not much hope for the rest of the EU. SoLando 19:21, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
• I think this debate has veered off course and become an argument about the differences between the EU and Europe. We all know the two are completely different. My opinion is that neither this page nor List of Europeans should be on the wikipedia. It is hard enough creating a comprehensive list people from one country, but for over 20 countries, this task is mammoth and probably will never be complete. As the pages stand they are a mockery. (Only 3 politicians and 2 royals - including a one-year-old commoner!?). I vote to replace pages with links to lists of famous people by country (compare with List_of_people_by_nationality) Dmn 00:18, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • Solando I understand your point, but the facts are... I see more flags of the EU that I see of Portugal. I see Europe even in the money that I have in my pocket. We have no borders, I can go to Spain (and others) and come when ever I want. There is in fact a sort of foreing minister (Xavier Solana). We now live very mixed. I can go to France 8and others), and have the same wrights has I have in here. The core EU nations have less independence than the US states. You are from the UK and the UK is part of the EU but is not in the core of it. It's very much in the sides. That's why that you have that POV. When Europe shifts to a single language, I'll be in the forefront for my country to leave it. Most Portuguese think the same. Meanwhile we strongly Support the EU has allways! Has most Europeans do. If the UK is agains the constitution, bad luck... That will not stop it. Say... we, in Portugal, would prefeer a union with Brazil, Cape Verde or East Timor (to whom we are culturally/blood attached) rather to Spain, a country that we allways prefered that should be placed as faar as Russia, to us to visit it, like you do! That's life, really. We cant allways get what we want. Besides, I work with Spaniards, and we can get alonge. Its better to live united in Peace than at war. If you dont like Europe that's your problem, but the UE is not the same as Europe.Pedro 01:42, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • The UK and France are the two major players? are you nuts? its France and Germany. The UK is not even in schengen or in the Euro. How can it be a major player!? Blair wants, but he isn't. Cause his country is against the EU, when most are in favour. How can a country like that leed the others. That doesnt happens, and will not happen. Its the first time I've eard such a thing. I think you are being very nationalist. And... saying very unreliable things.Pedro 04:08, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • Seriously, have you not noticed the rivalry between the UK and France? Have you heard of an author known as Nicolas Baverez? He has a bestseller called La France qui tombe, in it he chronicles the decline of France and points out that the UK is now beginning to make a grab for the leadership of the EU, and in a German poll late last year, Germans believed that Britain was Europe's leading power. I'm not trying to fight with you, i'm just saying that to have influence in the EU does not mean you have to be fully part of it, indeed look at the Pro-Atlantic East European countries, they are closer to the UK and therefore will probably help the UK in it's own agenda in the EU. But we are both veering off course, I still think there shouldn't be a List of EU people, it should be a list by nationality, as it will be much easier and will make more sense. I'm sorry if I stirred anything up, wasn't trying to have a fight with you. SoLando 14:37, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • No... I'm just like that, LOL. I'm not fighting. And, I've never eard of that or that guy. But France is really not in a Good shape. But ... Germany?!... I cant believe that. For now, both countries are really leading the EU, and I believe that will continue to do so. The UK doesnt have enough credit in the EU, because of its position. Remember that the new countries will not be full members till 2014. Except for Poland, the other countries very few important. And I can't believe that those countries will follow the UK because they can only enter the EU with certain conditions, and following a rebel is not a normal thing. I'm not a fan of enlargement, Europe is doing it because of the US.... to be more powerful. Solando, you cant stop the reality of things. The EU is a reality one cant deny. Portugal is an independent country for almost 1000 years. It will continue to be a nation and we are keen to asure it within the EU, even if the French plan of "Federation of nations" gains life. But many nations in the EU, almost all of them are not nations, Like the USA is not a country (its a federation). And... the UK or Spain are not nations, because they have different native people with different native languages. With the EU its the same. Its not a country, nether a federation, its a entity of it's own. I hope you understand my bad English. And what I want to tell you. there is nothing in the world like the EU, its a different kind of state organization.You must respect what's new.Hugs :-)Pedro 02:09, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Marked pov

This list presumes that the identity of these people with the EU is significant. This is only accepted by people who support the EU, and would probably be rejected by some people on the list. Wincoote 01:00, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)