Talk:List of Muslim scientists

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This article received a nomination for deletion on 21 February 2006. The result of the discussion was transferral to talk discussion. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

Contents 1 Incorrect Identifications 2 Pointless incomplete list 3 Al-Khwarzimi 4 Abdus Salam?

[edit] Incorrect Identifications

I have removed Al Battani and Thabit ibn Qurra from the list. Their articles clearly state that they are of some form of Sabians and not Muslims. According to the Quran and Hadith "Sabians" are People of the Book as are Jews and Christians and therefore are not technically Muslims as strictly defined by the "believers". In addition, these groups worshipped the stars (a leading factor to their interest in astronomy), and so would definately be guilty of shirk as defined by Islam. If one were to say that a "Muslim" is anyone who submits to One God, then one might as well add all the members of the Jewish and Christian lists to this one, which would obviously be absurd (though it would multiply its volume exponentially). Thabit ibn Qurra's article even goes as far as to state "...This sect lived in the vicinity of the main center of the Caliphate until 1258, when the Mongols destroyed their last shrine. During Muslim rule, they were a protected minority,...". This is a list of Muslims and NOT a list of people living within Islamic civilization.

You make a good case. You may consider removing them from Category:Muslim scientists. Although standards of what fits a Category can be different so I'm uncertain there. Also "Sabian scientists" is probably too specific to be its own category so it's of course your call.--T. Anthony 04:55, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

As for the issue you raised of what fits a Category, the uncertainty exists more for some Categories than for others. In evaluating who fits in to the Category of Muslim scientists, all we need to do is find the definition of who is a Muslim. Unlike the terms Hindu and Jew which have not only religious but also ethnic and national connotations at the same time, Muslim as defined by Islam is only a religious connotation - a Muslim "is an adherent of Islam." To further my example, when a Jew stops practicing Judaism he is still a Jew or when an Indian (taking the literal and original meaning of "Hindu") stops practicing Hinduism he is still considered a "Hindu", a person who doesn't adhere to Islam - which Islam says is belief in the shahadah and adherence to the Five Pillars, there is no reason to consider him a Muslim. The issue of who is a Muslim should NOT be ambiguous becuase it is defined by Islam itself. These two people (or at the very least Thabit ibn Qurra in light of your comment below) are not Muslims by the definitions that Islam sets.

Although on Al Battani it says the following "as-Sabi suggests that among his ancestry were members of the Sabian sect who worshiped the stars, however, his full name affirms that he was Muslim." Which indicates he has Sabian ancestry, but was himself Muslim. Although there is ambiguity there.--T. Anthony 04:58, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

My response would be that this is an illogical conclusion by the author/editor of that article written to defend the identification of a Muslim while admitting that under Islam he would not be considered so. I don't assume that this needs very much discussion, but the consideration that his full name is a Muslim one is explained by the fact that by 850 CE Islam had been become ingrained in the culture itself of most groups of Muslims, and is even further countered be the repeated fact that he would be guilty of shirk according to Islam. I will remove Thabit ibn Qurra from Category:Muslim scientists and wait action on Al Battani until we resolve this immediate issue.

Sounds good by me.--T. Anthony 09:16, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

i have removed abdul kalam ( father of india's nuclear/missile program ) as he doesnot seem to have any significant scientific achievments ( his work is not directed towards scientific discovery i.e. he is not someone who has pursued science for science's sake or someone who has made any new scientific discoveries ) but someone whos work is focused on acquring a technology that is already in existance,whos scientific aspects have already been discovered, for the state of india to achieve certain political ends (ironically directed against a muslim country Pakistan ).When we talk of muslim scientists, we mean those scientists who were in some way motivated by islam or an islam based culture to pursue scientific discovery.What abdul kalam has done is akin to transfer of technology not scientific research and judging by his secular tendencies and the fact that he is overtly against India's muslim neighbour Pakistan, we can't say that he's a muslim scientist. Clearly his science doesnot have anything to do with islam ,muslim culture or muslim aspirations. Abdul kalam should rather be included in an India based article. Falcon7385 16:45, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pointless incomplete list

I suggest putting an AFD or severely revising it. 65.10.35.147 20:41, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Al-Khwarzimi

I read remark here that his faith was disputed, but this page doesn't say anything about it, "(disputed[1])"

except "Al'Khwarizmi wrote on Hindu-Arabic numerals and was the first to use zero as a place holder in positional base notation.".

If someone is so ignorant to deduce from this sentence that his faith was disputed, he shouldn't bother editing wikipedia's article about science. (The early mathematicians didn't use the number zero, zero was "discovered" by Hindus and then used by Arabs who introduced it in Spain and from there it reached the Western Scientists of the later centuries. Anyone who knows this wouldn't doubt Al-Khwarzimi's faith by reading that sentence quoted above.) Waqas.usman 11:56, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abdus Salam?

The Pakistani government considers Abdus Salam to be a wretched Qadiani pretending to be a Muslim, so I don't see how they can have it both ways... AnonMoos 10:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)