Talk:List of Torchwood monsters and aliens

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[edit] Infoboxes

Why is the Doctor Who villain box used? Torchwood is a series in it's own right, shouldn't it have an infobox? Or at least the infobox should be changed to "Whoniverse" instead of "Doctor Who"... Trampikey ^{(talk to me)(contribs)} 17:51, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It did have "Whoniverse" at one point. Don't know why it was changed back though... anyway, changed back again to "Whoniverse race". ~ Ghelæ ^talk_contribs 18:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

...Which has since been reverted. Oh well... ~ Ghelæ ^talk_contribs 12:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe Torchwood should have its own infoboxes separate from the Doctor Who ones... — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Forget I said that :) — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:21, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edits by 81.145.241.216

To give an explanation for why I'm reverting these edits.

• "the only reason he gave for following this tradition was that "it made me happy." The real reason behind the tradition is never given."
  • This is superfluous: "the only reason" is sufficient; we don't know that it's not the real reason.

• "Called "fairies" by mankind, Jack Harkness notes that these demonic creatures do not actually have a name."
  • Not established anywhere that these creatures are demons.

• "They also have nigh-omnipotent control of the elements, able to create sudden gales or rainstorms and direct them with pinpoint accuracy. It is also said that they could "turn the world to ice" and it is implied that they caused the Ice Age."
  • "nigh-omnipotent" is a term never used, and is exaggerated. I do not believe that it is implied they caused the Ice Age, and the verbatim quote is unneeded.

• "(apparently a beautiful nineteenth century prostitute)"
  • POV adjective and unnecessary.

• "Her greatest weapon however is her sexual power with which she seduced Toshiko Sato."
  • POV, her sexuality and seduction of Toshiko is not established anywhere as a "power". --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I was the fella who was making the edits and please permit me to explain my reasons. I didn't say the fairies were demons I just said they were demonic which means demon-like. Demonic is used to the same effect as monstrous. Just because something or someone is monstrous does not make them a monster. As for their nigh-omnipotent control of the elements they are portrayed as extremely powerful and I just wanted to convey that. Turn the world to ice sounds more effective than just freeze the world over and it is the term used by the fairie leader. I do believe he (or rather "it") says "We could turn the world to ice again." My memory might be a little rusty. Also it is not implied that they could freeze the world, it is stated.

On the subject of my description of Mary as beautiful and your description of my description as a POV I would like to say the following ; what's a POV?

I actually attributed her seduction of Toshiko Sato as sexual power which is different from power as 'behold my POWER', it just means the ability to use your sexiness to your advantage and for all her abilities that is probably her greatest although a "probably" should really be in their.

Anon

POV means point of view - here we try to keep the language as neutral as possible without inserting our own opinions into the mix. Demonic, nigh-omnipotent and beautiful as adjectives convey specific types of "spin" (and demonic in particular passes a particular kind of judgement over those actions, plus given the supernatural nature of the fairies would slant the mind towards a more literal meaning) which are not needed. "Demonic" is actually mentioned below as an adjective, but it's attributed to a particular source and made clear as such, which complies with the policy of no original research.

At best, you could say that Mary "seduced" Tosh instead of "manipulated" her, but again, characterising sexuality as a "power" particularly in a science fictional context has larger implications which could be misconstrued.

And it's Jasmine who says: "If they want to, they can make great storms, wild seas, turn the world to ice, kill every living thing. Is that what you want?" No "again" is involved. "Turn the world to ice" is also likely not literal but means to freeze the world (more or less the same thing), but at best, one could use the verbatim phrasing. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 01:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, thank you. Like I said the memory's a little rusty. You're probably right about the "power" thing and the "demonic" thing. I know "turn the world to ice" means freeze the world over but again you're right that some people could take it rather literally. But it is still stated rather than implied. Oh and on the subject of the Cannibal Villagers, Huw's reason for following the tradition is "'cause it made me happy" but when I said the real reason behind the tradition is never given I meant the historical origin of the tradition but perhaps I should have been more specific. Finally might I add that in the context of the programme Mary is considered extremely beautiful (at least by Tosh) but I suppose some strange people might argue otherwise. And would you class my description of the fairy creatures' power as nigh-omnipotent as an opinion? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.240.229 (talk • contribs).

I would class "nigh-omnipotent" as an exaggeration — omnipotence is a pretty loaded word, and while the fairies' control of the weather is certainly powerful, to say "nigh-omnipotent" is a trifle hyperbolic. As for the cannibals, the additional sentence is superfluous because the entry already says "the only reason"; there's nothing to indicate that's not the real reason (the historical tradition may have started because it made the cannibals happy, too). --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 15:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

You're right I suppose, on both those notes. However would you mind if I made the following alteration?:

"It is stated* that they could freeze the world and it is possible that they caused the Ice Age."

• As opposed to "implied."

That's all.

Anon

I have a problem with the Ice Age bit because it's stated nowhere as such that I recall. In any case, the current version already quotes the freeze the world over bit verbatim. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:27, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

True, it is never stated as such. Yes I was thinking of leaving in the freeze the world over bit but changing "implied" to "stated" adding it that is is possible that they caused the Ice Age. After all if they can freeze the world over who's to say they haven't done it before?

Anon

It may be, but without any evidence to support such an implication it's original research and speculative. Best to leave it as it is at the moment and let the reader draw their own conclusions. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I suppose. We should still change "implied" to "stated" though, wouldn't you agree?

Anon

[edit] Cannibal Infobox

Why don't we have a cannibal infobox? It seems slightly messy without one. Or else they should go into the Minor Characters list, seeing as they aren't technically monsters or aliens. Clockwork Apricot 14:31, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree on this: On the Doctor Who m&a list, it is specified that the list "includes some beings which are not extraterrestrial, but are nonetheless non-human", andI don't see why the Torchwood m&a list should be any different. ~ Ghelæ ^talk_contribs 16:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

We discussed this on the minor characters talk page and it was said they should go here because humans can be monsterous too. --GracieLizzie 17:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)