Talk:List of alternative metal artists

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Contents 1 Table added 2 Making this page into a table 3 Metallica is an Alternative Metal band 4 This page could do with some work 4.1 Three Days Grace 5 Slipknot 6 "arguably considered by some"? 7 Tips for criteria 8 Seether 9 I'd really say this article needs some work

[edit] Table added

ok i realised that this page was nearly unusable, so i copied the table from the nu metal page, placed all of the appropriate bands in the table and now what is needed is for somone to fill up the table with appropriate infomation. and also this makes the page far easier to edit. 18/1/2007

[edit] Making this page into a table

Somebody should really make this article more like the table in List of Nu metal musical groups It makes it a lot easier to look at and find out what bands are currently still formed, what albums are in the alternative metal style, etc.

That's a good suggestion. maxcap 11:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Metallica is an Alternative Metal band

Great timeline just got one mistake.

Metallica is an Alternative Metal bend in Load/Reload period.Lars ulrich confirmed the transofmation that band took and it has been writen on wikipedia metallica related pages couple of times.So please don't edit metallica out of this timeline.

Thx

[edit] This page could do with some work

I suggested a while ago that this page should be a table. I checked up on it now and it's a timeline. Not just a timeline, but a timeline that's not all that easy on the eyes. If the timeline REALLY must stay, I suggest making the font size of the band names larger, because it's hard to read. Also there should be a key instead of text saying that orange means discontinued bands and green is currently formed. It would also be good to have a colour for Hiatus instead of the text hiatus.

However, my major concern is that there is little information on each band. I'm not saying there should be a 1 paragraph bio on each one, just if thier genre is alternative metal(which I will now refer to as A.M.), arguably A.M., or if thier was a time period in which they where A.M. Some of the bands are Arguably A.M. and perhaps shouldn't be on this page or get a mention that they aren't entirely A.M. Take KoЯn for example. they are mainly Nu Metal except for in thier latest album, See You on the Other Side. So perhaps it shoud show that they where arguably A.M. from 1994-2004 and moved to Industrial Metal (?) in 2005.

If the timeline really needs to stay, I suggets it goes on it's own page, Timeline of Alternative Metal Artists

211.28.127.73 11:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)Tim

I say it gets changed to a normal list, 'cause I can't see a damn thing due to 4 freakin errors with it. 4! Why can't it be a list anyway? The Wretched 10:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm coll with it being a list, preferably divided into sections, or possibly a table with details (i.e. Metallica being an alternative metal band in the Load/reLoad era, but not earlier). --Switch 06:47, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't care if it's a list, I was protective of it at first because it took me a while to do, but if some one wants to redo it go for it. I did hopefully fix the "errors" by increasing the height of the graph. maxcap 19:22, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Three Days Grace

...Seriously? They don't even vaguely resemble alternative metal. They're a post-grunge/pop punk band. Grah. And Lostprophets? What? I dunno guys. --Switch 05:52, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I was just reading what the articles say... íslenskur fellibylur #12 _(samtal) 21:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

three days grace is alt-metal, and not pop punk. they have never been pop punk, but alt rock. but i think bands like staind, chevelle, and breaking benjamin also have a place here. chevelle and breaking benjamin were originally here, but were deleted...

staind and breaking benjamin are more post-grunge than alt. metal, but I do have to agree with chevelle being alt. metal--Ilikepie714 02:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Gosh, somebody had to go and delete all that stuff. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean you have to ruin somebody else hard work. Red black 07 23:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Slipknot

Could someone please add Slipknot. I'd do it but I'm not confident enough with coding to do it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.255.121.136 (talk) 02:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] "arguably considered by some"?

What is that bollocks? Let's just include every single hard rock band ever, eh? ~Switch ^t 02:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tips for criteria

1. Read the article on alternative metal. Does x band fit that description? If not, don't add them.
2. Try to use sources other than Wikipedia.
3. Some sources do not distinguish alternative metal from nu metal - for example, All Music Guide includes it as a subtype with no discrimination (Linkin Park are identified simply as alternative metal). Wikipedia, however, considers the two separate for reasons of clarity. Make sure the source distinguishes before including bands here rather than on the corresponding list of nu metal bands.
4. Some rules of thumb (though breakable) for telling alternative metal from nu metal bands are:

4a. Alternative metal bands are mostly from the 80s, while their followers in the 90s are mostly nu metal.

4b. Alternative metal bands do not identify as "metal," while nu metal bands do. Alternative metal bands are more likely to align themselves with alternative rock or indie rock.

4c. Alternative metal bands have a very diverse sound, while nu metal is more homogeneous.

4d. Post-grunge bands are very unlikely to cross into alternative metal, and much more likely to cross into nu metal. Similarly, grunge bands are unlikely to cross into nu metal, more likely to cross into alternative metal. Examples: Breaking Benjamin and Soundgarden.

1. Have fun trying not to break WP:OR! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SwitChar (talk • contribs) 03:52, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Seether

The band is alternative metal so please stop removing them just because you don't enjoy their music, or whatever your reason is. Please and Thank You. Red black 07 00:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm removing them because they're not alternative metal. Please read the article. Seether are post-grunge/nu metal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SwitChar (talk • contribs) 03:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

No sorry to dissapoint yoo but they are alternative metal. They are post grunge/alternative metal. Nothing close to nu-metal.

Seether is alternative metal! If you have actually heard a song by them (other than 'Broken') you would know that.

Well, how could I possibly argue with that? Sorry, but no dice. Try reading the articles on nu metal and alternative metal again. ~Switch ^{t c g} 17:36, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm why don't you look at the nu metal article yourself and you would know they are not in that genre. And if you have actually heard their music you would know that they were alternative metal. No use in arguing because your obviously not willing to even here me out or check out a song to know their genre. You are basically just keeping bands you like and taking off the ones you don't. Red black 07 02:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I've contributed plenty to both of those articles and they're both on my watchlist;I know what they say. You don't even know which bands I like, so you can't use that to try to discredit my efforts here. Look at the guidelines above, as well as in the alternative metal article: They're a new millenium-era band; post-grunge, not grunge; taking influence mostly from grunge, later alternative metal and early nu metal bands; not noted for their experimentation or eclecticism; with a fairly standard sound. They're not alternative metal. They're nu metal. I can't "here [sic] you out", because you're not offering any arguments or evidence (By the way, allmusic does not count as evidence. You're just repeating your opinion and claiming I'm ignorant because I don't agree. That's not how to get your way here. ~Switch ^{t c g} 13:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by 'all music doesn't count as evidence' linking it to the papa roach discussion page. I didn't understand that. But sure I understand why you are not putting them there and at this moment it just doesn't mattter to me if they are there or not. Its not like its the end of the world. Genres of bands and artists are usually various depending on the person who is listening to it anyway. So I guess this conversation will just be deemed over.. oh and I didn't call you ignorant.. Sorry if it came off that way because of how I kept on complaining about Seether not being on the list. Red black 07 03:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

What I meant by "allmusic does not count as evidence" and linking to Talk:Papa Roach was to point out what I've already said on that page. If someone is going to provide evidence that a band is alternative metal, they shouldn't use the All Music Guide, because it doesn't distinguish between alternative metal and nu metal, but Wikipedia does. But it's all cool. ~Switch ^{t c g} 03:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh ok I get what you mean. But ya I never use there anyway, it doesn't give that much info anyway.Red black 07 04:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I'd really say this article needs some work

Its missing alot of bands that easily fit this category. Incubus, Chevelle, Disturbed...hell, Soundgarden is on the bottom table but not on the graph timeline, why? I know they were on there a while back, but they arent there now. These bands undeniably belong here. Listen to Incubus' first three albums, Chevelle's first two, Disturbed's Believe and Badmotorfinger and/or Superunknown (obviously Soundgarden in case someone doesnt know). Just because a band's sound gets softer later in their career doesnt mean they arent metal. *glares at Alice In Chains and NIN* Also, the argument that "a band doesnt belong here because they are Nu Metal" is nil. The Alt-Metal page even lists Nu Metal as a subgenre.

Also, Im not sure whether A Perfect Circle classifies as Alt Metal. And if they do you could probably argue(with a fairly valid point) that Three Days Grace, 10 Years, Breaking Benjamin and Seether are also Alt Metal. In reality they arent. Thus being my point as to why APC isnt alt metal. Defintiely more of an Alt Rock. I hadnt listened to them until recently so I hadnt refuted it earlier, but Ive had Mer de Noms and Thirteenth Step for afew months now and theyre not in the least bit heavy. Just because it has Maynard and Twiggy doesnt mean that its metal.

Another point would possibly be Smashing Pumpkins. They have some pretty hard songs on Mellon Collie and have always had a tinge of Industrial in them since Adore. They might not be as heavy as say, Tool or Deftones, but they do have their heavy songs(Quiet, Where Boys Fear to Tread, Bodies, Zero, Bullet w/ Butterfly Wings, Heavy Metal Machine, Everlasting Gaze, Dross, etc). Theyre just more influenced by Post-Punk and Goth Rock and this tends to make their songs slower and less heavy sometimes. The Alternative Metal page does even mention bands like this under the other styles section.

idk, the whole Alt rock vs. Alt Metal thing gets a bit out of control sometimes. Categorizing is so complicated that even those lines begin to blur. Lamentingvampire09 04:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)