Talk:List of animals displaying homosexual behavior

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Contents 1 Merge? 2 Sources 3 Possible addition? 4 This list is only the POV? Biased/One Sided article 5 African Amorous Ape? 6 criticising this list

[edit] Merge?

I don't really understand why we have a page for this. It doesn't have very much information, and doesn't explain its self. Are these species where most the animals act homosexual, or a few for some odd reason tend to...? Maybe we should merge it with Animal homosexuality. What do you think? Chooserr 05:52, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

There's a good precedent for keeping long lists separate from the article describing the list. Non-human animal sexuality (nee Animal homosexuality) adequately describes what's going on and points to this list. If you disagree, you should Wikipedia:be bold and update either article to make the connection better. I think you will find resistence to merging the two together, though. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:52, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Look how long the list is. Merging this long list with an existing page seems like a bad idea. It seems that your problem is not with redundant content in the list, but the nature of having a list such as this to begin with.--Andrew c 18:30, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

At least it's a good article to point the nth homophobe ignorant troll to (somehow the brand of people claiming homosexuality is a purely human perversion of nature never dies out) without having to refer to original research (anyone who has had a lot to do with animals can easily disprove such arguments, but Wikipedia is something of an authority by comparison). — Ashmodai ^{(talk · contribs)} 15:38, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Do we also need a list of animals with cancer for all those intolerant cancerophobes? charon 22:07, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Keeping a list so one can use it as a debating cudgel is not good. The best argument for keeping this list is that it is interesting, homosexual behavior is not often useful from an evolutionary standpoint, so the existence of it in a species is interesting. JoshuaZ 02:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Putting aside the issue of homophobia (which there's no evidence of here) this article isn't really very good. A list of species with a covering line indicating all these species display homosexual behavior? The information given is so tenuous it verges on the point of non-existence. MK2 20:03, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

Given that this is a slightly controversial topic, this list really need sourcing. JoshuaZ 03:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

It is sourced. The entire list is from the book under the References section. — ₀₉₁₈^BRIAN • 2006-03-5 03:27

I didn't realize they were all from there. Sorry about that. JoshuaZ 03:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

One book aint much to hang a hat on. Fishhead64 08:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

That one book is well-sourced to the relevant journal articles. If you have any more sources let us know. -BRIAN0918 16:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible addition?

Carl Zimmer's book Parasite Rex mentions homosexual blood flukes in the genus Schistosoma if no one objects I'll add them here with a citation to his book. JoshuaZ 16:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This list is only the POV? Biased/One Sided article

If anybody want to prove "animal homosexuality" in a such big numbers of animals - HE MUST give some SCIENTIFIC examples and references TO EACH CASES! Alexandrov 11:25, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The majority of this list was taken from a publication that provides those references (I believe it is Baghamil, Biological Exuberance). We don't need to provide all of those references again, we only need to provide the reference to the publication we took our data from. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:18, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Why aren't there any sources for this list? Where did this list come from? What scientific research supports its claims? It would seem that more explanation is necessary. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tendo (talk • contribs) .

See List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior#Sources - UtherSRG (talk) 14:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunatly I haven't this book, but usually one named (bee, goat,...) "animal homosexuality" for only "animal hypersexuality"!

- and there isn't same phenomena!

What about the scientific articles in the Net? Alexandrov 16:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Baghamil cites plenty of scientific references. I'm sure some of them are online now, but I haven't the time to hunt them down and add links to them here, nor do I have do. Citing Baghamil is good enough. As other folks add more, they should cite the sources for those additions. - UtherSRG (talk) 17:09, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I suggest the proponents of the homosexuality POV explain the following: In 1996, homosexual scientist Simon LeVay admitted that the evidence pointed to isolated acts, not to homosexuality by stating: "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity."[1] ken 14:48, 16 October 2006 (UTC)kdbuffalo

How about this: "Bagemihl, Bruce. Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity. St. Martin's Press, 1999. ISBN 0-312-19239-8" - UtherSRG (talk) 14:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Despite the "homosexual" appearances of some animal behavior, this behavior does not stem from a "homosexual" instinct that is part of animal nature. Dr. Antonio Pardo, Professor of Bioethics at the University of Navarre, Spain, explains: Properly speaking, homosexuality does not exist among animals.... For reasons of survival, the reproductive instinct among animals is always directed towards an individual of the opposite sex. Therefore, an animal can never be homosexual as such. Nevertheless, the interaction of other instincts (particularly dominance) can result in behavior that appears to be homosexual. Such behavior cannot be equated with an animal homosexuality. All it means is that animal sexual behavior encompasses aspects beyond that of reproduction.[2]ken 14:55, 16 October 2006 (UTC)kdbuffalo

That logic is countered in Bagemihl. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:10, 16 October 2006

You fail to show why and you failed to address this quote: In 1996, homosexual scientist Simon LeVay admitted that the evidence pointed to isolated acts, not to homosexuality by stating: "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity."[3]ken 15:48, 16 October 2006 (UTC)kdbuffalo

Go read Bagemihl. He does address that. I no longer have a copy of Bagemihl, and I"m editting from work. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:59, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Your criticism is misplaced. This article is not "list of homosexual animals", it is animals that display homosexual behavior. The first sentence explains this clearly. --Andrew c 22:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] African Amorous Ape?

For some reason, I have a bit of trouble believing the factuality of the first animal on the list. Should I just go ahead and delete it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Trebs (talk • contribs) .

I've gone ahead and removed that and other joke entires of the same editor. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:46, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] criticising this list

Isn't this list just going to grow until it includes pretty much every sexually reproducing species on Earth? I doubt that there are much species where homosecuality is entirely absent. (If there are, a list of such species might be a better idea :)

Personally I strongly oppose including long lists that are hard to mantain, likely targets of vandalism or unsourced additions and will never be complete. The only use this list seems to have is debunking the good old "it's not natural" anti-gay argument. I fail to see any scientific value. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rain74 (talk • contribs) .

• These pages are easy to maintain, and if they can serve any purpose they should be included. — BRIAN0918 • 2006-12-18 16:38Z

Where is real proof in the tiger actually showing homosexual behaivour? Personally I believe tigers would only be prone to show anti-homosexual behaivour, is it because of this people believe they might actually be closet homosexuals? --195.234.243.2 14:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)